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Old 02-11-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,906 posts, read 24,413,204 times
Reputation: 32998

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I always tire of the pettiness of some who want to argue about whether or not we are a "democracy". We're a relatively democratic government. Period.

In general, I believe that some form of democracy is the most valid form of government. However, that does not mean it will always function efficiently or in the best interests of the people. Neither will any other form of government. But our form of government is relatively responsive to the people.

In our currently polarized nation, roughly half of the population is going to be dissatisfied at any given time. If the candidate with the label of Democrat is elected, the Republicans will be dissatisfied, whether their thinking is logical, or not. The reverse is just as true.

However, I don't feel that all societies can handle democracy. I traveled to Thailand often, and then lived there for a couple of years. After watching their politics since the mid-1980s, I am convinced the Thais have thrived best in "modern" times under benevolent dictators, and before that under effective kings (such a Chulalongkorn). The problem being that not all dictators were benevolent, and not all kings were effective. The alternative to what I am suggesting is that a country like Thailand should be democratic (in some form), and suffer through the growing pains.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 5,433,309 times
Reputation: 10111
We do not have a pure form of any system, democracy..republic or anything. Thats why the founding fathers referred to this as an experiment.

OP most of the points you made are the very reasons that NO political or economic system ever works in the long run. Greed rules out.

People forget that we are glorified monkeys and every system we try out is just an experiment. Nothing we try out is truly an absolute law, its more like a test.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:20 PM
 
964 posts, read 996,014 times
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To address your, and Churchill's, point about the voter being stupid, that's why in the beginning of the American republic, only landowners were allowed to vote. That was the definition of "democracy" of the time. They were expected to vote in the public interest, not their own self-interest, and it was assumed they were better educated than the landless masses. Is that more the kind of thing you had in mind?

One variation that's worked out well in some countries is "participatory democracy", where community members form committees that work with the mayor's office to promote their needs and to exercise a certain amount of oversight (this has been pushed by the US through foreign aid projects in countries high on the corruption index). This allows the citizenry to be more invested in the community, and forces elected officials to be accountable. It's a big think on the community level in Cuba. Not so much on the national level. lol
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,251,152 times
Reputation: 5156
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
In our currently polarized nation, roughly half of the population is going to be dissatisfied at any given time. If the candidate with the label of Democrat is elected, the Republicans will be dissatisfied, whether their thinking is logical, or not. The reverse is just as true.
I disagree with this. The breakdown is more like 30% liberal, 30% conservative, and 40% moderate (totally approximate numbers). And really it's only 5%-10% at each end that makes all the noise.

So at any one time, about a third are happy, about a third are unhappy, and about a third are too busy worrying about work and kids to bother caring.

The moderates may lean one way or another on certain issues, but for the most part they just want to live their lives. They don't attend political rallies because it interferes with their kid's baseball practice; they don't call into radio talk shows because they don't want to sound like idiots; and they're too worried about paying bills to bother sending hard-earned cash to campaign war chests.

The problem is how loudly the extremists at each end tend to scream, plus how they tend to dominate the news. Which gets coverage... 100,000 people staying home, or 100 extremists waving signs at the courthouse?
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Old 02-11-2016, 04:37 PM
 
162 posts, read 147,130 times
Reputation: 183
I believe I read a science fiction book years ago (Gor?) which said the best form of government would be a Veteranocracy.......anyone who served their country honorably would be given the right to vote. Anyone that chose not to could not vote in any election. Neat idea?
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:32 PM
 
Location: NJ
807 posts, read 1,034,641 times
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I agree there are too many stupid people out there. There should be an IQ limit to vote. But that would never happen and would likely not be 'democratic.' So, the future I see for us closely resembles the movie, Idiocracy.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:36 PM
 
1,425 posts, read 1,388,658 times
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#2 combined with #6 causes 1, 3, 4, and 5.
Education and earned income thresholds can solve some part of the problem. At least, for the members of Electoral college, if not for all voters. Reasoning: if a person can't provide for himself, he should not have a word in how to rule the country that feeds him. If he is incapable of earning a HS degree (free of charge for all), that means he is too dumb to decide for others.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: california
7,321 posts, read 6,936,645 times
Reputation: 9258
I believe the taxpayer should be the only voter ,seeing it's his money being spent.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:02 PM
 
18,561 posts, read 7,390,229 times
Reputation: 11384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raysuxx View Post
Winston Churchill once famously stated, “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter”....

That's a poor argument since democracy and voting are unconnected phenomena.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
143 posts, read 159,032 times
Reputation: 150
Since I originally posted a whole lot of problems but no solutions what do you guys think about some form of Meritocracy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy

So lets say for example an issue on economics came up, everyone who has a masters degree or higher can vote on that issue. Majority still rules. On the environment, climate scientists are asked to vote. Urban planners vote on issues they are experts on and so on...

One of the issues with this would be the possible creation of an "elitist class' that holds the power to make decisions but if you have a big enough population of experts voting and a constitution which intrenched some concepts such as universal free higher education and concepts like that then couldn't this be a much better form of governance?
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