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Old 02-25-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: downtown
1,824 posts, read 1,670,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
If the American people somehow nominated as candidates for president, a Nazi as the Republican and a Communist as the Democrat, which of them would be preferable, and which would win.
Obviously Nazi would be the least preferable of them.
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Old 02-25-2016, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,100,254 times
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The likelihood of either happening, even as a hypothetical, is virtually non-existent. However, I do feel that if only two options were presented, the communist would win out. Here's why:

For one thing, Nazism is openly racist. It contradicts the long standing liberal value of equality. Nazism expresses specific views that some races are objectively superior to others. This will not sit well with very many people.

Beyond this, fascism, the economic system that comes with Nazism, is not appreciated by a voting population. It's highly authoritarian.

Communism is also authoritarian though. However, unlike Nazism, Communism actually is fundamentally about equality. While few Americans have a very correct understanding of communism, most are aware that it basically creates forced and absolute equality, most viewing it as an unrealistic ideal.

The thing is, if both of these were happening via an election, we'd have to assume that both are still in favor of democracy. To some extent. In this scenario, the state of things would have to be so bad that people would turn to these extreme ideologies, fearing no better option existed. This changes things quite a lot. It is, by the way, a necessary qualifier. No stable American election in the foreseeable future would ever see a communist up against a Nazi in a general election.

Assuming our overall values have not changed dramatically, Communism would be the clear victor. Both of the candidates would have the opportunity to make their cases. Americans would be exposed to sides of both of these that they before had not. Because America follows the liberal principles of equality, communism would surely be favorable over Nazism.

At it's core, communism is about a few major things: equality, the right of workers (laborers, or the proletariat), environmentalism (it's true), and post-industrialism. According to Marx, Communism was a natural outcome of things as they progress. Marxist theory is generally about how things change. There's a process. To him, the natural steps forward from current Democracy (bare in mind, he was writing at the height of the industrial revolution in England) would be that as they [Western democracies] become more prosperous, via democratically made decisions, the state would provide utility to it's people. This is called socialism. Once true socialism is achieved, the state, which is still democratic (theoretically; it has yet to work out this way), would seize all private property at once and the means of production would be publicly distributed evenly.

As I said, most see this as an unrealistic expectation at best. But, if the alternative option was an authoritarian class based democratically elected dictator, the communist would be favorable to most people.
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Old 02-25-2016, 05:29 PM
 
19,069 posts, read 27,648,953 times
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Maybe there is not that much difference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar..._and_Stalinism

After all, NAZI or NSDAP was a socialist party too. Nazional Sozialistische Deutche Arbeite Partei. National Socialist German Workers Party. ANd their roots were deep into the same socialism of Karl Marx and Libknecht and Zetkin.
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:35 PM
 
7,580 posts, read 5,335,867 times
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Unlike Nazis all Communist are not made equal. While I would certainly pass on Stalin, Trotsky, I could put up with Gorbachev, Antonio Gramsci, Alexander Dubček, or Todor Zhivkov.
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,251,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Maybe there is not that much difference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar..._and_Stalinism

After all, NAZI or NSDAP was a socialist party too. Nazional Sozialistische Deutche Arbeite Partei. National Socialist German Workers Party. ANd their roots were deep into the same socialism of Karl Marx and Libknecht and Zetkin.
Russia's government system under Stalin wasn't Communism by any stretch of the definition. It was a dictatorship.

You are comparing a brutal dictator who created and ruled over the Nazi party with another brutal dictator who pretended to create a communist country. Of course there are similarities. The title of the article at the link is even "Comparison of Nazism and Stalinism", not "... and Communism"

In its pure form, Communism is a utopia-style government where the people rule themselves and everyone is equal. No nation-level state has ever had a true communist government, and for good reason; it would fail quickly and spectacularly.

It's about as far away as you can get from the Nazi political party, which is a blend of Socialism (the government owns everything) and Fascism (complete national pride/control over the population) with a hefty dose of Racism (only the correct race has any rights or privileges).

And no, Communism and Socialism aren't even close to the same thing.
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:46 PM
 
4,212 posts, read 4,469,079 times
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This is a good educational review...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY


In the scenario proposed by OP, I think most people would 'choose' Communism and then rapidly deteriorate in the absence of some predominant homogeneity of cultural behavioral mores / standards of right / wrong etc... and be subsumed by some form of Nationalism after the hardship. my two cents.
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Dothan AL
1,450 posts, read 1,211,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
No, it won't. If enough voters select a third party during a particular election, that party gets automatic ballot access for the following election without having to file a petition.

Personally, neither the Republican nor the Democratic party represents me very well. If I like a particular candidate, I vote for him/her. If I don't like either of the primary candidates I still vote but vote for a third party. If enough people do this the Republicans and Democrats will pay more attention.
I do not think this is going to happen.
I understand you not wanting to vote for me, yet here is my platform, in part.

Free healthcare to all old people over age seventy. Low rent condos for all old people, you pay for the condo, but the state packs up the monthly fee. Free taxi serve for all old people to any local grocery store, and drug store, as well, any medical appointments.

New job program for young people taking care of old people, good training opportunities for young persons; college credit, nursing, social work, and old people get free care by nice young persons who, if the old person is lonely, they may have over for a chat, or to type posts if they are too old to type themselves.

Free in home nursing care and the right to die with dignity, rather than have to go to a nursing home. Right to DNR for any reason!

At least I am honest!
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal & Mid-TN
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I don't think most Americans know the difference. They think they do, but they really don't.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,574,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
If the American people somehow nominated as candidates for president, a Nazi as the Republican and a Communist as the Democrat, which of them would be preferable, and which would win?

This is a purely hypothetical debate, and should not be construed to be about Donald Trump vs Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump is obviously not a Nazi, and Bernie Sanders is obviously not a Communist. So please keep them out of this debate. It's completely hypothetical, about a real Nazi vs a real Communist.

Consider such issues as one of them appointing new Supreme Court judges, and what it would do to our system of government. And what countries we might go to war against depending on which of them was elected. Etc.

Of course, it depends. And in any real world scenario, the individual candidate's personality and policy stances would be the deciding factor. Then, the new prez would run into a brick wall with congress, no matter which party was in control.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,447 posts, read 4,759,979 times
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I think a choice between a fascist and a communist would lead to a more interesting discussion than a choice between a Nazi and a communist would. A Nazi would be more comparable to a Soviet than a communist, I would think.
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