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Just because he told others / made some facebook post saying he is involve in Jihad does not make it a valid jihad. If one believes in god, one would believe that god will see thru their lame excuses. You would think all these adults would realize you can't fool god into believing you are doing good when you are not. But everyone is looking into easy way in life and here after.
p.s homosexuality is not a sin in ISLAM. Indulging in homosexuality is a sin but the thought/desire that is controlled is not a sin.
It is like when Catholics and Protestants disagree on a fine point of theology. You can say he is wrong and he will say you are wrong and yell my God is greater in Arabic as he kills an innocent
So I'm kind of confused. Lately it seems that, to some...on facebook, that all blame for the Orlando attack should be put on Christians, and/or those who don't agree with the gay lifestyle. It seems like there might be some kind of ISIS connection, or at least some kind of Muslim radicalization so why not put the focus on that?
Why? Because the face of radical "Christians" is no different than the face of radical "Muslims."
Nobody is outright blaming Christians for the attack. What many are, correctly, calling them out on in their hypocrisy and their eagerness to blame this event on all Muslims, just continuing the cycle of violence.
Let's look at a few facts about the killer:
- He hated gays in no small part because of crazy, right-wing fundamentalist teaching that gays are all evil and condemned. Note that if he learned that from extremist Islam or extremist Christianity makes no difference in the effect
- He was probably gay himself, and such self-hatred can lead to terrible things
- He was violent (spousal abuse, on various watchlists), which has nothing to do with religion, and he was mentally ill.
- He was able to get an extremely powerful gun far too easily, despite being on various watchlists.
No, the facts indicate that the specific religion has nothing to do with this; any religion that preaches that level of hatred can produce cases like this one where a person so hates himself for his "evil sins" and the world for what he is that he goes nuts and kills people.
But extremists Christians - who also hate and condemn gays - are no better than the extremist Muslims that they are denouncing. THAT is why people are angry at the extremist, false Christians - the two-faced hypocrisy.
A brutal act involving two of the more marginal components in the "rainbow coalition" occurred, and the spin doctors within the Beltway haven't figured out how to deal with it. So the "blame game" is a fallback strategy. That, and little pieces of political penny-candy, (such as the usual call for gun restrictions) to please the Nanny-staters who still see more reliance on Big Brother/Sister as the answer.
The "spin doctors" in Washington would love to do something about this. Too bad the right-wing extremist loons and their NRA buddies want to continue to make assault level weapons easier to obtain than house pets in various parts of the nation. As for the rest of that nonsense, tell me again which party is is that's basically refused to govern and done everything they can to defund the government and hamstring every effort made to prevent violence like this from happening? Oh, yeah - the Tea Party Republicans. Sorry, right-wingers, but you can't have both ways - you can't strangle the government and then pretend, "Oh, see - the government isn't working so we don't need it."
Typical right-wing nuttiness - they want a government big enough to monitor the bedroom and keep tabs on that "evil rainbow coalition," but one that's too small to do anything of value... and, of course, more guns for everyone, because that always ends well.
So I'm kind of confused. Lately it seems that, to some...on facebook, that all blame for the Orlando attack should be put on Christians, and/or those who don't agree with the gay lifestyle. It seems like there might be some kind of ISIS connection, or at least some kind of Muslim radicalization so why not put the focus on that?
Not politically correct or glamorous. Most lefties would rather find way to attack ourselves, to wear the hairshirt, and say "it's our fault."
Why? Because the face of radical "Christians" is no different than the face of radical "Muslims."
Nobody is outright blaming Christians for the attack. What many are, correctly, calling them out on in their hypocrisy and their eagerness to blame this event on all Muslims, just continuing the cycle of violence.
**************
But extremists Christians - who also hate and condemn gays - are no better than the extremist Muslims that they are denouncing. THAT is why people are angry at the extremist, false Christians - the two-faced hypocrisy.
There is a huge difference. Radical Christians rarely kill anybody. Radical Muslims, not so much.
There is a huge difference. Radical Christians rarely kill anybody. Radical Muslims, not so much.
It is a matter of theology. While the Abrahamic faiths may believe the old book a radical Christian will say to your face that you won't get to heaven. The examples of them using violence under God's name are normally on missions to stop abortions . Murder as they see it. Their theology of salvation only come from really believing their book, not from their actions .
The radical Muslim thinks he is insuring his eternal salvation and will receive his 72 virgins when he kills airline flight attendents to get a pilot to open a door so he might go kamakaze. His target is not just what he sees as a rescue mission at a place that conducts murder but anybody and anything. I guess thinking that the rest of society will see their errors and submit to his God.
That one will kill coworkers at a party and another will kill folks at a club that his father can't accept that he visited while another would behead a tourist whose family and/or government wouldn't pay ransom doesn't change the fact that he thinks his God will reward him no matter what sins he had committed in his lifetime.
It is a matter of theology. While the Abrahamic faiths may believe the old book a radical Christian will say to your face that you won't get to heaven. The examples of them using violence under God's name are normally on missions to stop abortions . Murder as they see it. Their theology of salvation only come from really believing their book, not from their actions .
The radical Muslim thinks he is insuring his eternal salvation and will receive his 72 virgins when he kills airline flight attendents to get a pilot to open a door so he might go kamakaze. His target is not just what he sees as a rescue mission at a place that conducts murder but anybody and anything. I guess thinking that the rest of society will see their errors and submit to his God.
That one will kill coworkers at a party and another will kill folks at a club that his father can't accept that he visited while another would behead a tourist whose family and/or government wouldn't pay ransom doesn't change the fact that he thinks his God will reward him no matter what sins he had committed in his lifetime.
This is a broad and quick brush statement, but another difference is that both Judaism and Christianity have a basic theological of being a "righteous minority." It's possible to be a totally righteous Jew or Christian within in a larger "heathen" world--in fact, that position is easily discernible from their seminal scriptures. Although Constantine put on Christianity as a mask over empire, it's still possible for either a Christian or a Jew to be at personal peace being a righteous individual in an unrighteous larger world.
Not so easily in Islam. There is no embedded "chosen people" concept as there is in Judaism and Christianity for an individual to find comfort in being a "righteous minority," and that's particularly true in the Salafi (Wahabi) Islam that is promulgated all over the world by Saudi oil money.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 06-17-2016 at 06:39 AM..
What I've seen is almost no blame to the club owner. No, not for the attack, but his/her actions made it worse. From what I've read, there was only one exit or entrance to the building. There were other exits but those exit doors were chained shut. So that made the place a fire trap. Many fewer would have died if they didn't have those doors chained shut.
Fire trap? That was a very subtle double entendre.
What I've seen is almost no blame to the club owner. No, not for the attack, but his/her actions made it worse. From what I've read, there was only one exit or entrance to the building. There were other exits but those exit doors were chained shut. So that made the place a fire trap. Many fewer would have died if they didn't have those doors chained shut.
I was really puzzled as to why it went on for 3 hours and people were just there like caged animals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
I wish omar could have saved us all the pain and grief by throwing his homosexual butt off a roof. He couldn't accept that he was gay so he takes that anger out on innocent people instead then pledges allegiance to isis while he is killing?
It's just a shame that he didn't go to visit isis first and they could have handled him.
I had also heard that a worker at the club had locked doors thinking that the people were safer inside than out??
Obama blames the guns and the Christian right and the NRA. What is it with him?
If those doors were locked, someone is in major trouble there. The whole thing just seems off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
If they didn't find any of that to be true, they have no reason to continue an investigation. "Terrorist watch list" is not a list of known terrorists. It's a list of people they need to get around to investigating sooner or later. If they do the investigation and find nothing--which was the case with Mateen--then they drop him from the list.
Do you think FBI investigations are cost-free? They can't continue to investigate someone forever without results.
There is still no indication that Mateen ever had "direct contact" with any terrorist entities.
Now, IMO looking for "direct contact" is Maginot Line thinking--ISIS doesn't use "direct contact," they use "difused contact" through social media. But at present, "direct contact" is what the FBI is going on, and Mateen didn't have it.
I read where some people escaped out other exits. Hard to do when they are all chained up. But I do know there are conflicting reports on that issue.
That is something that needs to be cleared up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT
Just because he told others / made some facebook post saying he is involve in Jihad does not make it a valid jihad. If one believes in god, one would believe that god will see thru their lame excuses. You would think all these adults would realize you can't fool god into believing you are doing good when you are not. But everyone is looking into easy way in life and here after.
p.s homosexuality is not a sin in ISLAM. Indulging in homosexuality is a sin but the thought/desire that is controlled is not a sin.
Homosexuality is not a sin in Christianity either but indulging is the sin including "lusting" but it is not a crime when consulting adults are involved. That is where Islam, an ideology, comes into play as being different. Religion and government are one. Sins are crimes with very harsh punishments.
As we know, members of the LGBT community and women are considered worth very little in the Muslim culture.
We can pretend that Islam faith doesn't drive this as Obama is doing, but the assaults will continue and get worse. Islam as an ideology of government and religion being one is NOT compatible with our society.
The "spin doctors" in Washington would love to do something about this. Too bad the right-wing extremist loons and their NRA buddies want to continue to make assault level weapons easier to obtain than house pets in various parts of the nation. As for the rest of that nonsense, tell me again which party is is that's basically refused to govern and done everything they can to defund the government and hamstring every effort made to prevent violence like this from happening? Oh, yeah - the Tea Party Republicans. Sorry, right-wingers, but you can't have both ways - you can't strangle the government and then pretend, "Oh, see - the government isn't working so we don't need it."
Typical right-wing nuttiness - they want a government big enough to monitor the bedroom and keep tabs on that "evil rainbow coalition," but one that's too small to do anything of value... and, of course, more guns for everyone, because that always ends well.
Your point is bunk because of your obvious ignorance of laws and assault weapons.
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