Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are known cancer cures. Just not allowed leagllay in the U.S.
Oh Brother. You need to prove there are "known" cancer cures that aren't "allowed" in the U.S. And by prove it, I don't mean spewing internet conspiracy theories. I mean real, peer-reviewed research, published in real, respected scientific journals.
You suggested that I look into the products/people you mention below. That's exactly what I did. Google is my friend.
Quote:
Look into laetrile/vitamin B and how the FBI used swat teams in health food stores to get it off the shelves.
Laetrile has a long sorry history of not being a cure for anything.
Quote:
Look how Rick Simpson was driven out of Canada for his product.
Rick Simpson is not a doctor, has no medical training, and has absolutely no science to back up his claims. He does however, have the growing cannabis industry ready so swear by anything that comes out of his mouth.
Quote:
Look how Max Gerson was not allowed to fully practice in the U.S., and had to open clinics abraod to treat patients.
Max Gerson was a quack. There was ZERO science to back up his claims,
Quote:
Look into Steve Burzynski and his clinic in Texas and how he has been harassed for DECADES to try to shut him down because he is curing cancer there. Watch the move Cancer Is Big Business
Steve Burzynski is another quack. The movie you reference is nothing but him shilling for his own clinics.
Quote:
Again, instead of posting that you can't see the "conspiracy" do some research for a few and come back post what you have found. Real research, not just CDC website says.
The ignorance of posters who are refusing to bother to LOOK at ANY RESEARCH is ridiculous. GO DO SOME OF YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
Tell us what you have looked at. Explain it.
I did. This is an interesting compilation of the many, many questionable cancer "cures" that have come down the pike in the last century. Anecdotes don't equate to proof. Anecdotes don't equate to science. And anecdotes certainly don't equate to a cure for cancer.
There need not be a criminal conspiracy to create price gouging in the industry. The oligopolistic structure of the industry and protective regulatory and civil law protection afforded the industry by the Congress is enough to achieve this.
Yep - and you're saying that from a country whose regulatory bodies are not nearly as controlled by big pharma as the FDA is. Basically, in the US, "big medicine"* is the absolute pinnacle of corrupt and byzantine "crony capitalism". Nothing else comes close these days. This is a good thread with good ideas from some people - I just skimmed it - but one problem with solving the conundrum of "big medicine" is it is probably too big, too vast for any one person to address. If we were in a sane world - and clearly we are not - whoever our president is would appoint a panel of wide-ranging expert from a variety of fields to spend 3-4 months really trying to understand why our healthcare system is so FUBARed. These would have to all be genius level individuals, who have no vested interest in the system as it is - good luck with that. But I doubt that will ever happen; though I hesitate to mention the extremely controversial Mr. President Trump, I can say it was VERY nice to hear someone in a position of power say the pharmaceutical industry is getting away with murder. We are long overdue to have someone say that; it is one step in the right direction on a 4000 mile walk across the country! Anyhow the problems with really addressing the issues are manifold: it's extremely complicated, it requires a highly educated background, it's political, and it induces fear in people, like the whole nonsense about "death panels". As if that would be a problem if the government "took over" healthcare...private insurance already has "death panels". If a doctor says you are terminal for some cancer, they aren't going to spend 2 million to give you some experimental therapy, unless you get very, very lucky.
* (which is what I've decided is the far more realistic thing to call it - as in, yes, the doctors sometimes ARE part of the problem. There's no way I can explain having 2 very similar, brief procedures and having one doctor charge me 600 for it, and the other charge my insurance and me almost 3000. If we went to buy a Toyota Camry and found one dealer charged $28000 and another charged $140,000 by cleverly distributing the cost over thousands of other people who were NOT buying Toyota Camrys, we would say something was wrong!)
BTW I used to work in the pharma industry, and I have some pretty smart friends, including an MD who gave up on practicing medicine because he was so disgusted with the way medical care works in this country. So I'm a little more informed about sketchy stuff that is really going on than some of you.
Last edited by ZigZagBoom; 01-23-2017 at 08:37 AM..
And, btw, I should clarifying that I do not buy into most "alternative health" tropes. Vaccines probably need more scrutiny, but I don't think they are causing so many of the ills some people attribute to them. So it's quite possible to basically be a believer in orthodox medicine, or at least in orthodox medical approaches being fundamental, but acknowledge that the way we manage orthodox medicine is completely insane. But as I said, the breadth of the problem is terrifying, and beyond any one person to fully grasp. I, for example, am generally against so called "tort reform". If a doctor screws up, or a pharma company pushes a poorly tested product...damn right you should be able to sue. BUT, some of those lawsuits have been absolutely insane. Like the one against Teva because a sleazebag doctor running some fly-by-night clinic out in Vegas or whatnot, shared needles among a bunch of patients. How in the hell is that Teva's fault? But because medicine is clouded in some kind mythic bubble or aura of mystery to most people - perhaps illogical emotion connected to "life and death" matters - ALL common sense flies out the window and a clever lawyer was able to convince a jury to punish Teva to the tune of over a 1/2 billion, for the malpractice of a doctor using their product. It's like...if my grandma is run over by a city bus driven by a guy who was texting...it might be one thing to sue the telco...but can I sue Exxon-Mobil for selling diesel fuel to the city to operate the bus? That's about how stupid that lawsuit was. Teva's product didn't make the people sick...it's just that in the course of committing horrible malpractice, it was involved as the thing the doctor was administering at the time.
Oh Brother. You need to prove there are "known" cancer cures that aren't "allowed" in the U.S. And by prove it, I don't mean spewing internet conspiracy theories. I mean real, peer-reviewed research, published in real, respected scientific journals.
You suggested that I look into the products/people you mention below. That's exactly what I did. Google is my friend.
Laetrile has a long sorry history of not being a cure for anything.
Rick Simpson is not a doctor, has no medical training, and has absolutely no science to back up his claims. He does however, have the growing cannabis industry ready so swear by anything that comes out of his mouth.
Max Gerson was a quack. There was ZERO science to back up his claims,
Steve Burzynski is another quack. The movie you reference is nothing but him shilling for his own clinics.
I did. This is an interesting compilation of the many, many questionable cancer "cures" that have come down the pike in the last century. Anecdotes don't equate to proof. Anecdotes don't equate to science. And anecdotes certainly don't equate to a cure for cancer.
--
You have not proven anything except to say you don't believe. There is substantial evidence to support all of those who I have named. Try doing some research instead of name-calling.
The American Cancer Society is a an almost $1 billion a year company. Written into its bylaws is the fact that if a cure for cancer is ever found and recognized, the company MUST disband and cease operation. All that money funnels down into labs, research, drug development, education, marketing and licensing of its name/logo .... ask yourself how hard a $1 billion a year company will fight to stay in business. Add in ALL the other cancer "charities" and ask yourself: AGAIN: What is the incentive for researchers and scientists, journals and publications, to find a CURE for cancer?
An aside: You don't have to believe in gravity either, but it is a fact, and if you step off that cliff you will fall. Even if you call gravity a "quack," since the scientific community is STILL unable to explain what gravity is.
Last edited by newtovenice; 01-23-2017 at 09:09 AM..
You have not proven anything except to say you don't believe. There is substantial evidence to support all of those who I have named. Try doing some research instead of name-calling.
.
I thought Bill did a great job of analyzing the stuff posted here. A bunch of random disconnected anecdotes from various crackpots is not evidence of a vast conspiracy.
If we were in a sane world - and clearly we are not - whoever our president is would appoint a panel of wide-ranging expert from a variety of fields to spend 3-4 months really trying to understand why our healthcare system is so FUBARed. These would have to all be genius level individuals, who have no vested interest in the system as it is - good luck with that.
That research has been done multiple times by a variety of organizations. That is not the problem. It is well known how to fix our disastrous national healthcare system. The problem is that a lot of politicians, mostly Republicans but some Democrats too, are in the pocket of healthcare lobbyists. They will not put in place laws to control prices and limit the effect of monopolies and patents because they are all afraid of the lobbyists. And of course the Republicans believe that the government has no business providing any healthcare services at all to the country so if they had their way the whole thing would be an unfettered free-market free-for-all.
Last edited by TwoByFour; 01-23-2017 at 01:02 PM..
You have not proven anything except to say you don't believe. There is substantial evidence to support all of those who I have named. Try doing some research instead of name-calling.
The American Cancer Society is a an almost $1 billion a year company. Written into its bylaws is the fact that if a cure for cancer is ever found and recognized, the company MUST disband and cease operation. All that money funnels down into labs, research, drug development, education, marketing and licensing of its name/logo .... ask yourself how hard a $1 billion a year company will fight to stay in business. Add in ALL the other cancer "charities" and ask yourself: AGAIN: What is the incentive for researchers and scientists, journals and publications, to find a CURE for cancer?
An aside: You don't have to believe in gravity either, but it is a fact, and if you step off that cliff you will fall. Even if you call gravity a "quack," since the scientific community is STILL unable to explain what gravity is.
Apparently some operate under a unique definition of "evidence."
There is big $ in pharma and $ corrupts those in power positions who can legislate for/against the common good...
Over the past five years, campaign records show lawmakers received at least $27 million from the largest pharmaceutical companies. During that time, drug companies increased prices at alarming rates. https://www.google.com/amp/www.9news...?client=safari
Against "Big Pharma conspiracy"... Anecdotal evidence -
I happen to personally know the team of pharma doctors/clinical researchers who discovered the highly successful Hepatitis drug treatment. They are good people of high moral character excited about the patients they are saving (esp. the many AIDS patients). I do not believe these particular people would be capable of a conspiracy that would hurt the common good.
You have not proven anything except to say you don't believe.
It's not up to me to prove anything. I don't believe there is a conspiracy, because I don't see the evidence. Apparently, you do believe in the conspiracy, so it's up to you to prove it. It's up to you to convince me.
Quote:
There is substantial evidence to support all of those who I have named.
There is not substantial (scientific) evidence to support your claims. There is anecdotal evidence to support your claims. There's a big difference.
Quote:
The American Cancer Society is a an almost $1 billion a year company. Written into its bylaws is the fact that if a cure for cancer is ever found and recognized, the company MUST disband and cease operation. All that money funnels down into labs, research, drug development, education, marketing and licensing of its name/logo .... ask yourself how hard a $1 billion a year company will fight to stay in business.
You bring up an interesting point. I remember learning, in one of my undergrad government classes that, that the first rule for any bureaucracy is to expand the bureaucracy. I get that. And the NCS is a huge organization. Yep, really more of a business than a charity. But you make it sound like there is one cure for cancer; one pill sitting in a jar somewhere, hidden from view by Big Pharma and the NCS, that will cure everybody. Cancer is a vast array of very different disease processes. It will take decades, if not centuries to develop treatments for all of them. I think the NCS can be secure in its own existence for some time to come.
Even if a miracle cure was found, I don't think it would be difficult for the NCS to retool for some other disease/cause. There are all kinds of diseases that need funding.
Quote:
Add in ALL the other cancer "charities" and ask yourself: AGAIN: What is the incentive for researchers and scientists, journals and publications, to find a CURE for cancer?
What's the incentive? How about doing the right thing. People and organizations still do that. I work with medical professionals who are absolutely dedicated to the health of the American people and to alleviate suffering. Do you think the vast majority of researchers working in the cancer field are any less dedicated? While I'm sure some could be co-opted, most wouldn't simply roll over at the whim of Big Pharma or the NCS and be silent about a potential cure for cancer. If nothing else, personal gain/fame would be an incredible incentive. A "cure" for cancer would mean a Nobel prize, grants, patents, wealth and fame. A lot of dedicated people want that too.
An incentive for Big Pharma is money. Say somebody developed a pill that would cure lung cancer. You take a pill for four months, and you're cured. The company that had that pill would make a FORTUNE. Another reason I don't get the whole Big Pharma/conspiracy stuff.
Quote:
An aside: You don't have to believe in gravity either, but it is a fact, and if you step off that cliff you will fall. Even if you call gravity a "quack," since the scientific community is STILL unable to explain what gravity is.
I'm not sure what your point is. I believe in gravity because I can observe it. If I drop my cell phone, I see it drop to the floor. I have made no such observations about a vast criminal conspiracy by Big Pharma to keep people sick. Your analogy isn't germane to this conversation. (BTW, I'm no physicist, but I thought they'd pretty much identified gravity as one of the four "fundamental interactions of nature." Didn't Newton come up with "laws" of gravity, that are still recognized? And I think Einstein pretty accurately described gravity in his "General Theory of Relativity." Just saying...)
Look into the Rockefeller Foundation and its targeting of medical schools in the early 1900s.
See how the schools teaching naturopathic cures were closed.
See how the pharma-driven schools were funded.
See how textbook content was shifted.
Understand where allopathic medicine got its start.
Follow the money.
Understand why we have the system we have today, and why it doesn't keep people healthy.
Do some actual research. You might learn something. Nah, too hard. My doctor told me thinking is bad, so I'm not gonna do it anymore.
People are beyond ignorant. Doctors/pharmacists have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and a decade of their lives to get into their careers. They are too invested to look too closely at what is actually going on. The system is self perpetuating. There is enough information on this thread to prove there is an issue. If you are steadfastly refusing to look at it, examine it and understand the TRUTH in it, it is not my fault. That's on you to education YOURSELF. Not me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(BTW, I'm no physicist, but I thought they'd pretty much identified gravity as one of the four "fundamental interactions of nature." Didn't Newton come up with "laws" of gravity, that are still recognized? And I think Einstein pretty accurately described gravity in his "General Theory of Relativity." Just saying...)