Mom sues West Virginia School to stop Bible-Study classes (money, states, support)
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I'm against this. Reminds me of what my school district did back in the 1950s. At my elementary school, on Wednesday afternoons (during regular school hours), we were dismissed 90 minutes early if we attended bible study at one of the five main churches.
Yeah, at my elementary school in Indianapolis in the 60s, we had "WRE," (Weekday Religious Education). Once a week we walked across the street to a Lutheran church and had an hour class there. I'm pretty sure that continued for a LONG time after I was out of school (maybe it still occurs even now). I remember that there were triplets in my class, who were Jehovah's Witnesses. They were the only ones who didn't go to the class, and it seemed weird to me that they skipped it. One of the triplets told me their mother wouldn't allow them to attend WRE because they "already go to the best church." Funny how that stayed with me all these years!
Religion is an INDIVIDUAL matter in this country. The role of the state is to protect individuals from inevitable assaults by crazed agents of some purported God or other.
Yeah, at my elementary school in Indianapolis in the 60s, we had "WRE," (Weekday Religious Education). Once a week we walked across the street to a Lutheran church and had an hour class there. I'm pretty sure that continued for a LONG time after I was out of school (maybe it still occurs even now). I remember that there were triplets in my class, who were Jehovah's Witnesses. They were the only ones who didn't go to the class, and it seemed weird to me that they skipped it. One of the triplets told me their mother wouldn't allow them to attend WRE because they "already go to the best church." Funny how that stayed with me all these years!
The Catholic kids had something like this in my small town in the 90s. I believe it was related to studying for their confirmation. Anyhow, kids in grades 2-4 would leave for an hour or so every Wednesday for a certain time span (a few months each year, I think?) I always thought it was super weird that they were literally going to church during school hours.
For me, the biggest issue in the original issue and what I saw when I was growing up is not so much the use of the school building itself but the fact that the religious content is taking the place of real education. Use of the building doesn't bother me at all; my town had dozens and dozens of activities that took place in the school building, from the county craft sale to kids' book clubs to dances for senior citizens. But there are only so many hours in a school day, and an hour spent pandering to religion is an hour of math/reading/writing/etc. that the kids will have to do without.
The 3-R's also suffer from things like art, music, gym, study hall, shop, and a host of other elective courses. The difference is that none of those involves agents of the state endorsing one religion over another or religion in general over non-religion. That's where all the problems come from.
The 3-R's also suffer from things like art, music, gym, study hall, shop, and a host of other elective courses. The difference is that none of those involves agents of the state endorsing one religion over another or religion in general over non-religion. That's where all the problems come from.
I (and many) believe the 3-R's are ENHANCED by the arts, gym, etc. Certainly the well-roundedness of the individual is.
I (and many) believe the 3-R's are ENHANCED by the arts, gym, etc. Certainly the well-roundedness of the individual is.
I agree. I merely discount loss of time spent on the 3-R's as a reason to oppose religious indoctrination. There is no reason to go there as the latter is out regardless.
Religion should not be taught in a public school IMO unless it's a brief introduction on ALL religions to educate children of diversity. Besides that, it should be taught separately by parents or in a private setting.
I agree. I merely discount loss of time spent on the 3-R's as a reason to oppose religious indoctrination. There is no reason to go there as the latter is out regardless.
I never said the "three Rs" were the only subjects that mattered. I specifically said "an hour spent pandering to religion is an hour of math/reading/writing/etc. that the kids will have to do without. [emphasis added.]"
"Art, music, gym [physical activity]," are vital components of a well-rounded elementary education. I think study hall is dumb--isn't that what after school hours are for? And shop? I've never heard of an elementary school offering shop class (or study hall, for that matter.)
If the "class" in question was a study of world religions, or a history of religion, or even specifically an academic study of the history of Christianity, that would be one thing. But bible study is clearly a religious practice rather than an academic subject.
What I am saying is that complaining about religious matters for taking time away from the 3-R's is folly, as it implies that such indoctrination might not be objectionable if time considerations could be re-arranged. The simple fact is that religious indoctrination is totally out of the question in public schools under any set of of circumstances at all.
Violations of the federal & (likely) state Constitutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pub-911
What I am saying is that complaining about religious matters for taking time away from the 3-R's is folly, as it implies that such indoctrination might not be objectionable if time considerations could be re-arranged. The simple fact is that religious indoctrination is totally out of the question in public schools under any set of of circumstances at all.
Yes. Every effort should be made to have these classes held @ churches or temples or whatever other venue is reasonably available. The local mall, a community center, a nearby parochial or other religious school, perhaps in rotation of churches or religious schools, if the sponsors & parents are agreeable.
& yes, this should take place before or after the school day, & not during the school day. As a practical matter, I would expect this to happen after school hours. Bible study per se - as a religious practice/matter - is only going to be about Christianity, or @ least some variation of it.
The main problem is Constitutional - there is no religious test for office in the Constitution, & the public schools - to my knowledge - in W. VA are paid for by everyone who owns property there. Therefore holding exclusively Bible classes (& rejecting all other religious texts, documents, etc.) is a taking under color of the state. You can't have that in the US - it runs counter to the Constitution & likely to the W. VA Constitution, as well (see the filing, URL above, in #6).
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Violations of the federal & (likely) state Constitutions
