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Charlygal, I like the way you stated your premise.
I would just add that for many small town Americans in the 1950s (for example), experiencing only White people had nothing to do with any kind of prejudice. In many small towns there were no racial minorities. Take my home town of Palmyra, NY, 21 miles east of the city of Rochester. Until about 1960, there was not a single Black in our village or township. Not a single Latino. We had one Jewish family. So on a day-to-day basis, we didn't see any racial minorities except in the media. There was a form of subtle persecution in our town...very subtle...it was the birthplace of Mormonism, and the Mormons who were in Palmyra (very few) were mostly looked on as being "odd".
Then, in the first half of the 1960s, something happened in our town -- change. A single Black family moved into town. There was a sudden realization that the main insurance agent was gay. Later one Latino family moved into town, although I would have to say they were marginally Latino (in terms of culture). A foreign student in our high school was from Thailand. The Methodist minister brought African students from Cornell University to visit and sometimes stay with Methodist families for holidays and vacations. And then, the biggest shock of all, was when our town really only had one full-time practicing doctor, and he was obviously gay.
I imagine this type of transformation happened in many small towns throughout America, perhaps (just guessing) in parts of the Midwest and mountain states.
You need to ask yourself - how come no black people (or whatever) moved in before the 1960s. The answer is because it was illegal. Most of small town America prohibited non-white people from buying homes. Even when they had the cash. The US govt. also made it impossible for the same minorities to get mortgages. So even if people wanted to some they were prevented. It was lawful prejudice.
I’ve seen a few comments around C-D about diversity being forced on people. There was even the recent online controversy about the new Star Trek show that’s coming out. I wanted to approach the topic from a logical point of view.
In the beginning, the land mass that we call America was populated by people that we call “Native Americans.” Then folks from Europe arrived. So, from day 1, America was never truly a “white” country.
Then consider that the land that comprises the states of Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and parts of Wyoming was once owned by Mexico. Thus, there were Mexicans and “Mexican Indians” in America.
Of course, Black people came with slavery and some immigration. Then, there was an influx of Asian people when the Chinese began coming to America in the 1830s. This means that before the turn of the century, America was very diverse.
Jumping forward in time to the age of TV, magazines, and modern media. For a variety of reasons, these media outlets chose to focus on shows and images that primarily featured white people. Workplaces seemed to follow suit. However, as stated above, America was populated by people of all races, colors, and sexualities. These people had lives that were never displayed in popular media.
We are now starting to see things change. For some people, this may seem jarring and unfamiliar. Thus the criticism that this is all being forced on people.
So, how about this? Instead of being upset that TV and workplaces are “forcing” diversity on people, should people instead be upset at TV and workplaces for making people believe that all of these diverse people didn’t exist? It created a belief in an artificial reality that was NEVER real.
I think very few people think that the USA is an all white country an completely fail to realize it's racial makeup. However, that is an entirely different issue than the issue of diversity in the media. Some people have issue with groups trying to force diversity in the media. Not every TV show or movie needs someone of every race and orientation and not every show needs straight white men.
I'd really like to know where y'all are running into all those white males that object to Star Wars characters, or are "loons" or whatever pejorative that seems to get thrown around a lot on CD. Have you simply defined "White male, Christian, conservative" = racist, sexist, hatemonger, whatever, whatever? Sure seems that way.
Or is it just cheery picking? For the OP, if we invoke logic, the most probable response is very few people believed those shows represented anything other than a diversion. No one believed Mike Brady was such a good architect the house really was bigger on the inside than the outside. Or that Jed Clampett shot a hole in the ground and "moved to Beverly."
The simple reality is most people just don't care whether someone is black or LGBT or whatever. As in "I have enough to do minding my own business, I don't have time to mind yours." They want to deal with their own daily important things, not someone else's.
Unfortunately, the actual real-world numbers don't agree with the OP's premise.
Current (2010 census) racial make-up: Europoid/Caucasian, or "white": 72.4% Negroid, or "black": 12.6% (African American is an ethnic group) Mongoloid, or Asian: 4.8% Malay, or Native American/Alaskans/Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders: 1.1%
Mixed or other: 9.1%
Hispanic/Latin American is another ethnic group making up about 16.3% which are taken out of the White, Black, and Mixed groups above. If you count them separately the "white" number drops to 63.7%.
But those numbers aren't spread out evenly across the US. Blacks are much more heavily concentrated in the southeast (Mississippi has the highest percentage at 37%) and in large urban areas. There are large portions of the country where black people number in the low single digits percentages, and you can literally go years without seeing a black person in some parts of the north-east. Similar for all other minority races.
A mostly-white USA wasn't an artificial reality, it was the reality for the majority of people. An artificial reality is one where all commercials and TV shows have 50% minority make-up. But it isn't a conspiracy; just advertisers trying to appeal to the maximum number of people with the least number of dollars.
A slight side note, but while the Americas were originally populated by people of the Malay race (Native Americans), about 90-95% of the native population was wiped out by a massive epidemic of European diseases in the 16th & 17th centuries. The pre-Columbus population of the Americas is estimated to be between 50 and 100 million. If not for those diseases the natives would have kicked the European settlers' collective **ses. Just like what happened to the Vikings several centuries earlier.
Unfortunately, the actual real-world numbers don't agree with the OP's premise.
Current (2010 census) racial make-up: Europoid/Caucasian, or "white": 72.4% Negroid, or "black": 12.6% (African American is an ethnic group) Mongoloid, or Asian: 4.8% Malay, or Native American/Alaskans/Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders: 1.1%
Mixed or other: 9.1%
Hispanic/Latin American is another ethnic group making up about 16.3% which are taken out of the White, Black, and Mixed groups above. If you count them separately the "white" number drops to 63.7%.
But those numbers aren't spread out evenly across the US. Blacks are much more heavily concentrated in the southeast (Mississippi has the highest percentage at 37%) and in large urban areas. There are large portions of the country where black people number in the low single digits percentages, and you can literally go years without seeing a black person in some parts of the north-east. Similar for all other minority races.
A mostly-white USA wasn't an artificial reality, it was the reality for the majority of people. An artificial reality is one where all commercials and TV shows have 50% minority make-up. But it isn't a conspiracy; just advertisers trying to appeal to the maximum number of people with the least number of dollars.
A slight side note, but while the Americas were originally populated by people of the Malay race (Native Americans), about 90-95% of the native population was wiped out by a massive epidemic of European diseases in the 16th & 17th centuries. The pre-Columbus population of the Americas is estimated to be between 50 and 100 million. If not for those diseases the natives would have kicked the European settlers' collective **ses. Just like what happened to the Vikings several centuries earlier.
So you state that a mostly-white USA was reality for the majority of people and yet you also state that where there was has been a high concentration of black people in the south and urban areas. So a mostly-white America has not been the reality in a majority of this country's metro areas which is why diverse groups of people are featured in the media.
I think very few people think that the USA is an all white country an completely fail to realize it's racial makeup. However, that is an entirely different issue than the issue of diversity in the media. Some people have issue with groups trying to force diversity in the media. Not every TV show or movie needs someone of every race and orientation and not every show needs straight white men.
Really, is having people of certain ethnic groups featured on shows really bother you guys that much?
Sweet Jesus. I'm getting a picture of some people here who really get cheesed off if one or two non-white people are a part of a show with a predominantly white cast.
Really, is having people of certain ethnic groups featured on shows really bother you guys that much?
Sweet Jesus. I'm getting a picture of some people here who really get cheesed off if one or two non-white people are a part of a show with a predominantly white cast.
No. What many of us are "cheesed off" about (although for myself, I would use the term "slightly irritated") is when a show attempts to show that non-Hispanic whites are not the majority when portraying a "typical" racial makeup of a cast in a typical town. The simple fact is that in the U.S. for now, non-Hispanic whites are still the majority, with 63% being non-Hispanic white. This means that I would have no objection if, for example, out of a regular cast of ten people, five would be white (which, of course, would be even more than the "average"), with the rest being non-white.
Now, if a TV show, for example, shows a family living in Detroit, the reality would likely be that the family is black, since (according to City Data) 79.2% of the people living in Detroit are black, and so -- of course -- I would have no objection if the cast is entirely black, although the reasonable expectation would be that about 80% of the cast would be black.
But, to be clear, I truly look forward to the time when there will be no discussion as to "color" or ethnicity at all -- that everyone would just accept the fact that all races and "colors" make up our world!
Last edited by katharsis; 06-21-2017 at 07:45 PM..
No. What many of us are "cheesed off" about (although for myself, I would use the term "slightly irritated") is when a show attempts to show that non-Hispanic whites are not the majority when portraying a "typical" racial makeup of a cast in a typical town. The simple fact is that in the U.S. for now, non-Hispanic whites are still the majority, with 63% being non-Hispanic white. This means that I would have no objection if, for example, out of a regular cast of ten people, five would be white (which, of course, would be even more than the "average"), with the rest being non-white.
Now, if a TV show, for example, shows a family living in Detroit, the reality would likely be that the family is black, since (according to City Data) 79.2% of the people living in Detroit are black, and so -- of course -- I would have no objection if the cast is entirely black, although the reasonable expectation would be that about 80% of the cast would be black.
But, to be clear, I truly look forward to the time when there will be no discussion as to "color" or ethnicity at all -- that everyone would just accept the fact that all races and "colors" make up our world!
We are talking about T.V. shows here. It's not that serious, no average person is sitting there doing a statisical analysis of the ethnic demographic of the main cast of each show. For the most part T.V. has actually been fair in accurate presentations of demographics.
Someone may actually have a complaint when there is a show with a predominantly non-white cast set in Utah or Maine. But now it just seems silly.
Really, is having people of certain ethnic groups featured on shows really bother you guys that much?
Sweet Jesus. I'm getting a picture of some people here who really get cheesed off if one or two non-white people are a part of a show with a predominantly white cast.
I was recently watching a show that was supposed to take place in my hometown, a rich-white suburb. In fact many scenes were shot in my town. I swear there was someone of every single possible ethnicity/orientation/religion represented. It made the show feel completely contrived. It wasn't believable at all. American suburbs are really not that diverse. If a movie is set in Japan, I don't want every other character to be white or black, it would be distracting. Now on the flip side, if you are making a show that is set in NYC and their isn't a single non-WASP on the show, that would be distracting to me and would make the show seem unrealistic.
With that said, producers, writers and directors should be able to make their show/movie however they see fit. If they want to make their show/movie unrealistic and represent every single minority group they should be free to do so. However, don't go around bullying others if they don't want to do that in their shows/movies.
FWIW I'm a left-leaning, Jewish, millennial, college-educated guy from California. So I'm not exactly the type of backwoods redneck you were probably hoping for.
So you state that a mostly-white USA was reality for the majority of people and yet you also state that where there was has been a high concentration of black people in the south and urban areas. So a mostly-white America has not been the reality in a majority of this country's metro areas which is why diverse groups of people are featured in the media.
Keep in mind that races are still somewhat segregated, even in the "high" concentration areas, and 37% over the entire state is hardly a "high" concentration.
We are now (thankfully) much more integrated today than we were back in the age of "white television" when race-based Real Estate laws were legal and common. Back when Whites made up closer to 90% of the population. Back when all the po' black folk were forced to live in po' black folk neighborhoods to "protect property values". Even if that po' black folk was a college-educated lawyer or doctor or engineer who was smarter and more law-abiding than your white neighbor.
So again, back before the late 20th century, for the overwhelmingly vast majority of people a "white America" was reality because they didn't see any minorities every day. Even in the southeast, and even in the cities. I am not saying it was good or right, but it was reality. In case you haven't figured it out, that reality is the "some reason" why movies, TV, magazines, and even the workforce were overwhelmingly white back then.
And again, for lots of people in rural areas of the midwest and northeast a "white America" is still the reality. Most people don't realize that there is a huge disparity between the reality of living in a rural area versus an urban area.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 06-22-2017 at 06:35 AM..
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