Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Mother`s Day to all Moms!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2017, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,355,885 times
Reputation: 20833

Advertisements

We've now gone for six months with an extremely controversial President and an electorate deeply polarized over basic issues; yet life goes on. The checks from both the public and private sectors arrive on time, spending patterns continue unchanged, both emergency services and the systems to deal with longer-term concerns (environmental issues, to cite just one example) continue to function. People are born, live and die in the usual pattern.

So where does all this lead? Where do we go from here? I'm sure that more than a few of the usual advocacies here can cite a particular concern, but the fact remains that our last major "shock" on 9/11/01 passed, and with lessons learned. There are undoubtedly "safety valves" tied down here and there, but only a small percentage of us see a quantum expansion of the power of Big Brother/Sister as the answer. And while there may be threats, we remain strongly divided as to how to address them. Despite the fantasies peddled to the relatively young and the readership of Popular Science, the adaption of any technological breakthrough to daily existence is a slow process, and the worst abuses of an earlier day tend to be either glossed over, or oversimplified, simply because "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

Thoughts from the readership?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-26-2017, 06:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,502 posts, read 6,916,225 times
Reputation: 17065
California with the world's 5th or 6th biggest world economy is a state that will increasingly goes it's own way and fend for itself especially in the area of environmental policies. Hopefully some other states will also take the "it's up to you" philosophy and increasingly strike out on their own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 06:34 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,698,207 times
Reputation: 14051
I've heard this "debate" for many decades....people saying they were happy Congress and POTUS did nothing.

If this country were #1 in the world in health, education, leisure and/or any of the other measurements of a happy society, I'd be all with you. But since we have a LONG way to go in most departments, I think we need to take action.

Having been in business my entire life, I have found that making and carrying out changes and decisions is the key to success. I call it flexibility...and efficiency. Government should accomplish not only these things, but work toward the Happiness and General Welfare of the populace.

Doing nothing while charging us full price (+++) is plain crazy. Do you like to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year - of your and your childrens money - for nothing? If so, you'll love a government that does nothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 05:56 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,937,528 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
We've now gone for six months with an extremely controversial President and an electorate deeply polarized over basic issues; yet life goes on. The checks from both the public and private sectors arrive on time, spending patterns continue unchanged, both emergency services and the systems to deal with longer-term concerns (environmental issues, to cite just one example) continue to function. People are born, live and die in the usual pattern.

So where does all this lead? Where do we go from here? I'm sure that more than a few of the usual advocacies here can cite a particular concern, but the fact remains that our last major "shock" on 9/11/01 passed, and with lessons learned. There are undoubtedly "safety valves" tied down here and there, but only a small percentage of us see a quantum expansion of the power of Big Brother/Sister as the answer. And while there may be threats, we remain strongly divided as to how to address them. Despite the fantasies peddled to the relatively young and the readership of Popular Science, the adaption of any technological breakthrough to daily existence is a slow process, and the worst abuses of an earlier day tend to be either glossed over, or oversimplified, simply because "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

Thoughts from the readership?
Re: bold: Personally, from my perspective, "our last major shock" was global in scope ~ the recent global financial imbroglio passed with very few lessons learned. I'll also hazard to guess other Nations learned more than the USA & have taken more remedial & proactive steps to prevent or minimize the harms.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 06:56 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,937,528 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I've heard this "debate" for many decades....people saying they were happy Congress and POTUS did nothing.

If this country were #1 in the world in health, education, leisure and/or any of the other measurements of a happy society, I'd be all with you. But since we have a LONG way to go in most departments, I think we need to take action.

Having been in business my entire life, I have found that making and carrying out changes and decisions is the key to success. I call it flexibility...and efficiency. Government should accomplish not only these things, but work toward the Happiness and General Welfare of the populace.

Doing nothing while charging us full price (+++) is plain crazy. Do you like to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year - of your and your childrens money - for nothing? If so, you'll love a government that does nothing.
Agree with much said here. It's worth noting there's 'precedence' in American history:

Quote:
...So went the rules of this secret fraternity that rose to prominence in 1853 and transformed into the powerful political party known as the Know Nothings. At its height in the 1850s, the Know Nothing party, originally called the American Party, included more than 100 elected congressmen, eight governors, a controlling share of half-a-dozen state legislatures from Massachusetts to California, and thousands of local politicians. ...
Read more: How the 19th-Century Know Nothing Party Reshaped American Politics | History | Smithsonian
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Also worth noting:

Quote:
Laissez-faire (/ˌlɛseɪˈfɛr-/, French: [lɛsefɛʁ] from French: laissez faire, lit. 'let do') is an economic system in which transactions between private parties are free from government intervention such as regulation, privileges, tariffs, and subsidies. The phrase laissez-faire is part of a larger French phrase and basically translates to "let (it/them) do", but in this context usually means to "let go".[1] ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 07:11 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,698,207 times
Reputation: 14051
The know-nothings came and went and there was no income tax at the time so they certainly paid a lot less.

In terms of politics, tho, the know-nothings and the "nationalists" (portrayed in Gangs of New York as the Butcher) had similar views to the know-nothings of today...some of it is almost word for word.

Then again, we have the resurgence of all kinds of hate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,539 posts, read 17,284,948 times
Reputation: 35834
Life will go on no matter what is going on in DC. President Trump like all before him will go down in history as he did some good things and some not so good.
What we are seeing today is ridiculous and unprecedented. The Democrats want Trump out. but what I fear is that if they get their wish will they stop their negativity when Pence assumes command? I doubt it. The ultimate goal seems to be to delegitimize his Presidency and have the election nullified. What does that mean? do we have another election?
I just feel that the Dems and a bunch of Reps are dragging their feet and will be for the next 3.5 years and in the meantime nothing gets done that has the the Dons prints on it.

In the meantime we have a paralyzed government that is not good for the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Northwest Arkansas
573 posts, read 587,352 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Life will go on no matter what is going on in DC. President Trump like all before him will go down in history as he did some good things and some not so good.
What we are seeing today is ridiculous and unprecedented. The Democrats want Trump out. but what I fear is that if they get their wish will they stop their negativity when Pence assumes command? I doubt it. The ultimate goal seems to be to delegitimize his Presidency and have the election nullified. What does that mean? do we have another election?
I just feel that the Dems and a bunch of Reps are dragging their feet and will be for the next 3.5 years and in the meantime nothing gets done that has the the Dons prints on it.

In the meantime we have a paralyzed government that is not good for the country.
I agree with this. The extreme bias showed by the media only confuses the uneducated even further, and leads to people stopping me and asking random questions like, "Is Trump going to jail mentally retarded people?" I get asked actual questions like this thanks to fake news sites HuffPo and many others that want people to believe the sky is falling if a Republican is in the white house. I think they will kick and scream and whine until they get their way and Pence replaces Trump, then they will attack Pence nonstop and prevent him from doing anything until 2020. I think then we will have a democrat in office, and they will get nothing but positive media coverage and maybe the government will be slightly less paralyzed, but I think the perpetual paralyzed government narrative is here to stay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,938,759 times
Reputation: 14125
I think you can only do nothing for so long. At some point Republicans will have to seek partisan help. Whether it is on healthcare fixes or impeachment, Republicans will need across the aisle help. I say this because the Republicans themselves are torn between their constituents, money and the President.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 12:09 PM
 
Location: moved
13,666 posts, read 9,742,332 times
Reputation: 23493
In a robust society that functions relatively well, with an established history of processes and societal conventions, a dysfunctional government can long persist, without hugely deleterious effects accruing. The classic (no pun intended) example is that of Rome - first the ailing republic, ~100BC though the time of Augustus, and then the empire, in a series of inept/tyrannical emperors after Augustus. Despite rampant depravity and mismanagement at the top, the empire remained strong, secure and prosperous. Until, of course, eventually it didn't.

The immediate problems dominating the headlines are healthcare, immigration, material inequality and environmental risks. None of these are problems of burning immediacy, where society would collapse if nothing is done in the next 4 or 8 years. But all of them are sufficiently pervasive and notable, that if nothing is done for decades or generations, then yes, eventually we'll have a serious consequences.

It is also reasonable to aver, that a paralyzed government is preferable to a woefully stupid activist government. I agree with that. But what does that imply? That our only choices are active and dangerous fools, or passive bickering fools chasing their own tails? Perhaps a society that can do no better than that, is a society that indeed deserves to fail?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top