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Call me a hippy-dippy snowflake or whatever you want, but physical punishment isn't something I support. Spanking, whipping, beating, waterboarding, or even gold old fashioned car battery electrocution. I don't doubt it's effective if the goal is to get the kid to stop doing something you don't want them to and RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY, at least while they're smaller than you. It's archaic and study after study shows it's bad for the long-term development of kids.
I know some people say it's ok for dangerous situations, but how exactly? I will physically restrain or prevent my kid from getting themselves hurt, but that's not spanking. That's holding, or lifting, or dragging out of the way. If they aren't able to be safe in a dangerous situation I will remove them from the situation.
Another common retort is that "some kids just need it". I guess. I'm sure some kids will only become compliant after a severe beating--not even spanking will solve their behavior issues--does that make it ok?
That's fine. You raise your kids according to your beliefs, and we will raise our according to ours. As for that "long term development" thing, I don't buy it. How a swat on the butt to get their attention affects a kid for life is simply nuts. Too many of us who were spanked as kids know better.
A little funny story here. One time my then GF and I were riding bikes on a popular bike path. In front of us was a mom and dad with two kids riding their bikes behind them. The kids were acting up, and the mom said "When we get to the beach, you are both getting a time out !"
As we got to the beach there was another lady, a large woman, standing in the outdoor showers with two of her sons, and one of them was acting up. She took a swing and hit him hard on the butt and he kinda flew up into the air. I said to my GF, "I think he just got his time out there !"
That's fine. You raise your kids according to your beliefs, and we will raise our according to ours. As for that "long term development" thing, I don't buy it. How a swat on the butt to get their attention affects a kid for life is simply nuts. Too many of us who were spanked as kids know better.
A little funny story here. One time my then GF and I were riding bikes on a popular bike path. In front of us was a mom and dad with two kids riding their bikes behind them. The kids were acting up, and the mom said "When we get to the beach, you are both getting a time out !"
As we got to the beach there was another lady, a large woman, standing in the outdoor showers with two of her sons, and one of them was acting up. She took a swing and hit him hard on the butt and he kinda flew up into the air. I said to my GF, "I think he just got his time out there !"
Different strokes for different folks.
Too true, but to each their own when raising their kids. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I got my azz spanked and I probably deserved more when I think of all the mischeovous things I did as a kid and DIDN'T get caught doing....smh
That's fine. You raise your kids according to your beliefs, and we will raise our according to ours. As for that "long term development" thing, I don't buy it. How a swat on the butt to get their attention affects a kid for life is simply nuts. Too many of us who were spanked as kids know better.
A little funny story here. One time my then GF and I were riding bikes on a popular bike path. In front of us was a mom and dad with two kids riding their bikes behind them. The kids were acting up, and the mom said "When we get to the beach, you are both getting a time out !"
As we got to the beach there was another lady, a large woman, standing in the outdoor showers with two of her sons, and one of them was acting up. She took a swing and hit him hard on the butt and he kinda flew up into the air. I said to my GF, "I think he just got his time out there !"
Different strokes for different folks.
There are lots of reason to criticize research, but anecdotes and an appeal to 'common sense' are two of the worst. It's a small but measurable effect, not a logical statement. Lots of kids get spanked and turn out OK, lots of kids don't and turn out horrible.
I think a better criticism would be that parents that choose not to spank are different, on the whole, than parents choose to spank. There might be confounding factors that were poorly controlled or not normalized out.
I know some people say it's ok for dangerous situations, but how exactly? I will physically restrain or prevent my kid from getting themselves hurt, but that's not spanking. That's holding, or lifting, or dragging out of the way. If they aren't able to be safe in a dangerous situation I will remove them from the situation.
So it is OK to forcibly drag or push the kid away? It is OK to push him to sit in the Time out chair as some advocate? But it is not OK to give him a firm spank on the butt? I see very limited difference between those actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
Another common retort is that "some kids just need it". I guess. I'm sure some kids will only become compliant after a severe beating--not even spanking will solve their behavior issues--does that make it ok?
Nor it does not but actually no one in this thread has advocated a severe beating. Please don't accuse the posters here of what no one supports. There is a huge difference between a few spanks on the butt and a severe beating. This accusation is so typical of the anti spanking advocates. They love accusing their opponents of being an advocate of severe beatings which is simply not true.
So it is OK to forcibly drag or push the kid away? It is OK to push him to sit in the Time out chair as some advocate? But it is not OK to give him a firm spank on the butt? I see very limited difference between those actions.
I see a big difference between forcible removing someone to prevent injury (and pain) and forcible causing that person pain to ensure future compliance. I see it as "you did something wrong, now I'm going to cause you physical pain so you associate doing something wrong with pain" as opposed to "you are running into the street, so I'm going to pick you up so that you can't". Or do I not understand how spanking is supposed to work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ
Nor it does not but actually no one in this thread has advocated a severe beating. Please don't accuse the posters here of what no one supports. There is a huge difference between a few spanks on the butt and a severe beating. This accusation is so typical of the anti spanking advocates. They love accusing their opponents of being an advocate of severe beatings which is simply not true.
The argument was that some kids will respond to spanking but not forms of non-violent punishment. That may be true. My question is, "what about kids that don't respond to whatever form of physical punishment you consider acceptably mild?" Do you draw the line at injury as opposed to just pain? I don't like the association between violence and obedience, particularly with my own kids.
There are lots of reason to criticize research, but anecdotes and an appeal to 'common sense' are two of the worst. It's a small but measurable effect, not a logical statement. Lots of kids get spanked and turn out OK, lots of kids don't and turn out horrible.
I think a better criticism would be that parents that choose not to spank are different, on the whole, than parents choose to spank. There might be confounding factors that were poorly controlled or not normalized out.
And a lot more kids who are not properly disciplined turn out to be brats, self entitled, lazy, law breaking, and out of control. We see it all the time, parents who try to be "buddies" or that "cool dad or cool mom" and their kids are a mess.
I didn't have to spank often because my two knew when they got that mean dad look it was time to knock it off. Kids want to see structure and rules in their lives, they don't really respect parents who are wishy washy and who let them get away with anything.
And a lot more kids who are not properly disciplined turn out to be brats, self entitled, lazy, law breaking, and out of control. We see it all the time, parents who try to be "buddies" or that "cool dad or cool mom" and their kids are a mess.
I didn't have to spank often because my two knew when they got that mean dad look it was time to knock it off. Kids want to see structure and rules in their lives, they don't really respect parents who are wishy washy and who let them get away with anything.
Again, there's this idea that the only two options are no discipline and spanking. I'm not advocating no discipline, just not physically striking a child as a way of meting out that discipline. I'll admit it's a lot harder to get your kid to do something when you can't just threaten to strike them, but I think the extra effort is worth it. My kids are still young so I guess I will see.
I came out good and now a 79 yr old adult, but have NEVER forgotten that belt my dad took off and used on me and maybe my brother too. I don't think he did on my sister who was youngest born. Maybe a lot of today's thinking about killing and wars goes back to my childhood (fear days). Mom really did her best to protect her children but dad was big and breadwinner.
Again, there's this idea that the only two options are no discipline and spanking. I'm not advocating no discipline, just not physically striking a child as a way of meting out that discipline. I'll admit it's a lot harder to get your kid to do something when you can't just threaten to strike them, but I think the extra effort is worth it. My kids are still young so I guess I will see.
No, I actually agree with you on that point.........it isn't like spankings were an every day occurrence. The vast majority of the time, simply saying "no", or some other form of correction did the trick. In fact, I probably spoiled my sons more than I disciplined them, they got rewards all the time for good behavior. But when they didn't behave the right way, we had our little talks, and if the talk didn't get their attention, the swat did.
As I mentioned earlier, we sometimes sit around and they give me a hard time about the times I disciplined them, but in a funny way. One time, when my one son knew he was going to get spanked, he looked a little fatter to me than usual. Turns out he had put on 5 pairs of underwear !
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