Are the new opioid prescribing restrictions pushing innocent people to the streets to buy heroin? (death, Canada)
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I've never even gotten tylenol post surgery. Never any pain meds whatsoever. Maybe if I'd asked for them? Now that I think about it, I have gotten prescriptions that I never filled.
Thats only because the DEA has doctors scared of loosing their licenses, they watch them like hawks when it comes to how many scripts they are writing for opioids, doesnt matter what the patient actually needs anymore, its about whats legal and not legal in the eyes of the DEA.
This is tyranny plain and simple, yet its being ushered in as 'being done for the public health and safety', and all the sudden a great many people agree with them, this needs to be done for our safety, they are looking out for us...YEAH RIGHT!
How about letting doctors decide what patients need and not some law enforcement agency?
I dont understand where the pharma companies are on all this either? They really need to stand up to the DEA and challenge them on this, not to mention, doctors and medical associations, they seem to all be lying down and accepting what the DEA says. Or how about the patients, many people are upset at this, why arent their huge picket lines at the DEA, calls for them to get out of the examining room?
Yes, at least for some. There is already a lot of misinformation in this thread. Skip to the bottom for the quick summary.
My quick background. Seven years ago I was retiring from flying F-16's in the Air Force. About 2 months prior to my retirement, I had a bad stomach ache for a little over a week. I was on terminal leave to the area I was going to retire so I didn't know a sole. Anyway, it finally became so bad I went to the ER at midnight and was told I needed an appendectomy. I had been in charge of a group before and they are quite common. I had known maybe 10 people who had them. I expected a quick endoscopic surgery and to go home the next day. I called my wife and told her it was no big deal, I would drive home the nexst day and she didn't even need to come down. I was sadly mistaken.
I awoke from my surgery and I could see daylight through one of the windows. I was in ICU, my wife was there crying and they had a lawyer and clergy on call for me. Turned out my appendix leaked for that week instead of just becoming inflamed. I had septic gangrene which was shutting down all my organs and I was massively ripped open where they had attempted to remove as much of the gangrene as they could from around my internal organs. They didn't expect me to live through the week.
Fortunately I did survive. For the next four months I was in and out of the hospital all the time. I had to be left open with my organs exposed and they would be cleaned daily and repacked with wound gel gauze. Sadly, that was nothing compared to what I was in for.
After 4 months, I was finally feeling better. I had closed up from the inside out with very little scarring. But my body was destroyed permanently. Within weeks I started to discover I had symptoms of severely aggressive Rheumatoid Arthritis; Later Lupus, Ankylosing spondylitis, and symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis set in. I developed Common Variable Immune Deficiency where my body could no longer create antibodies. My lungs and heart no longer functioned properly... my resting heart rate is over 100 and I am on supplemental O2 constantly. My Thyroid stopped functioning, as well as my ability to make testosterone. When I was still strong enough, I went to several different hospitals around the country, Mayo Clinics in two states, etc. The worst problem was the ever increasing pain. My "10" or the worst pain you could imagine from 7 years ago is less that what I live with daily now despite the best efforts of dozens of specialists and treatments. Opiate therapy has been the only thing that has kept me alive. I have tried spinal simulators, Physical Therapy, Medical Marijuana (which helps, but nothing near the pain relief I get from opiates).
I had been very active in my life. I had broken more than 10 bones playing sports in High School and college. The closest thing I can say the daily pain I live with is hitting you thumb or finger with a hammer (if you've ever done construction). Put that pain in every joint in your body. My feet and back are the worst as I can barely stand anymore.
Now I'm on an enormous dose of Opiates. I've had people freak when I tell them the dosage. But it's the only thing I have left. I do live in a state with Medical Marijuana, and have tried it and continue to
Yes, you do develop a tolerance for the drug. But it is manageable if you stick to taking your meds as prescribed. Yes, my body has developed a physical dependence on the opiates but it is completely different than addiction. Yes, I have side effects, etc. But bottom line, Opiates have been the only thing that has kept me from taking my own life, and they do work for many people that have extreme physical pain where nothing else is available for them. There are many diseases that cause pain just as high as any cancer with no end.
Now, here are some of the laws and consequences I have experienced due to the war on drugs and new laws and regulations. (At least in my state... I don't know how much is Federal).
1. Doctors have a limit of how much they can prescribe. It doesn't matter how many patients, or what type. Even Physicians at a pain management center are under the same regulations. Because my dose is so high, many physicians don't want to see me, because they can see and prescribe opiates to many other patients that require a lower dose or see me now. Fortunately I have a compassionate physician that I've seen and understands what I am going through.
2. Pharmacies are only allowed so many opiate pills. There are some constraints as to the size of the pharmacy and how many patients they see, but not of what type. Again, my daily proscription exceeds what many people get for moderate to major surgery for their entire recovery. I have had multiple pharmacies drop me and I've been told by them it was because they could serve more patients (who would use the pharmacy for their other meds and make more money).
3. My pain management clinic is zero tolerance for any illicit drug (Except Med Marijuana which they grant me my card). I get urine tested every month as there are no refills, I have to see the doctor monthly. I also get two random urine tests where I have 48 hours to show up and get tested as well as do a random pill count to make sure I have exactly the amount I am supposed to have. Despite that, pharmacies can completely deny your prescription. Even though it is from a large pain management facility less that 2 miles away. The same doctor for the last 4+ years. The same prescription. I was hospitalized once because of new management at my pharmacy and they refused my prescriptions. Besides the effects of withdrawal symptoms, I tore my vocal cords from crying and yelling, and had to have an ambulance take me in the fetal position to the hospital and sedate me before they could stabilize my pain meds again.
I have never gone to heroine. I wouldn't even know how to get it, except there are others like me that I've met seeing the required pain management psychologist. I've met them and there are forums for people like me to get support from others. I have even been told by multiple doctors as well as more than one psychologist that if I were to be denied my meds again to use heroine or methadone at a clinic as a stopgap.
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So yes, there are people moving to Heroine. There are sicknesses, diseases, injuries, etc. where we have the means to keep people alive, but no means to relieve there pain.
When you see comments like "Opiates don't work for the long term" or "Doctors should treat the source of the pain not mask it with addictive drugs", please remember there are people like myself where there is currently no other option. Opiates can work long term if overseen by a knowledgeable physician and taken responsibly. There are injuries and pain that exceeds the ability to "meditate or compartmentalize" the pain. Those are all techniques that work for certain people and their level of pain. I can promise anyone that isn't possible for me.
I have no desire to take Heroine, get high or euphoric. I never have had that in my personality. But I've promised I'd try to do everything I could to survive, even to be the bedridden father for my kids. I hate needles as it is having to give blood weekly as well as hormone shots and infusions for Igg and to manage my autoimmune diseases. But if I suddenly was denied treatment again despite never failing a drug test I would. Yes I personally know people in similar situations that have gone to heroine. Because of a doctor on vacation, or insurance requiring them to change pharmacies that would not honor their pain meds despite local doctor prescriptions.
Sorry for the rant, but it is a touchy subject in our house. Because of an armed theft at my pharmacy I had to go elsewhere and was rejected by 17 pharmacies.
I'm sure there are people that will think I'm a junkie or could manage my care better. All I can say is I was completely normal and was much more unsympathetic 7 years ago before my appendix killed me. My lungs, heart and kidneys are failing now and I don't have much longer to live. Already died in the ER for 2 minutes a year and a half ago. I shouldn't have to worry and fight to have my prescription anymore than someone needing insulin or statins or antibiotics.
Thank you for posting this. You and I both know the people saying we should accept tylenol and tiger balm as acceptable alternatives to opioids have yet to experience real pain. There is nothing available OTC or in touchy feely quasi medicine that will treat real pain. Many people will chose to end their lives if they can't get pain relief anymore. This is the sad truth they don't want to hear.
doesnt matter what the patient actually needs anymore...
Need? I got prescriptions, I just didn't fill them because I didn't feel the need.
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How about letting doctors decide what patients need and not some law enforcement agency?
How can they decide? What incentive do they have for saying no?
Someone comes in and wants pain killers, so they get a prescription. Why not eliminate the middle man? Just let people go to the dispensary and buy them.
My thought is, after taking the opiates, is the real issue pain for some or simply that they are going through withdrawal. I have seen people on them play the system. The "need" appeared to be the drive, the pain more of a side effect of withdrawal. Opioids and Related Disorders | Definition and Patient Education
Being 63, I can see how a complete relief of pain would be desirable, but know the side effects of such, and living in a false reality was nothing that ever had any attraction for me. https://www.pbinstitute.com/long-ter...ts-opiate-use/
And, no, I don't think it is pushing people to the street, well, the addiction would. But other help should be sought. Once addicted, it will take some doing before the "need" goes away. Seriously, what opiates do to the mind and body, I guess that will end the suffering.
I had a friend who tried heroin. The feeling when it wore off the one time scared her straight.
Thank you for posting this. You and I both know the people saying we should accept tylenol and tiger balm as acceptable alternatives to opioids have yet to experience real pain. There is nothing available OTC or in touchy feely quasi medicine that will treat real pain. Many people will chose to end their lives if they can't get pain relief anymore. This is the sad truth they don't want to hear.
It's not that the DEA doesn't want to hear it. It's not that the DEA can't hear it. It's not that the DEA is unaware of what's happening out here. They hear it just fine and they're very aware of what's happening with pain patients committing suicide and all. The simple truth is that they just plain down't give a damn about us. They have an agenda. Who or what is behind this agenda is a mystery to us but you can bet it involves billions of dollars in profits to somebody. Even if we had an actual number on the suicides because of unrelenting pain (it's estimated to be about half of the 40,000 or so suicides in this country annually) even if the number of pain sufferers switching to heroin because the pain is too much for them and then dying doubled, even if the number of deaths from people medicating with alcohol who die of cirrhosis were to double, even if the number of people who die from Tylenol poisoning and other NSAID's over-medicating from the pain were to double--all of this still would not deter the FDA/DEA from its "stated" mission of saving even one stupid kid abusing his mommy's pain pills from death.
I have had and do have an opioid Rx for chronic pain, with never any issue re filling a prescription. No one has said anything at all about any planned changes, none are expected.
My provider office has that sign on the door but they are warning drug abusers they don't play their game. Once they established the accuracy of my situation, they have been happy to prescribe for me.
BTW...as a med professional, I assure you no MD would "push" a pt off pain meds without a decreasing dose in increments where the pt would NOT be subject to withdrawal symptoms.
QUOTE=thrillobyte;49532509]* Doctors for most part have stopped prescribing opioids under any circumstances.
* about 100 million people in this country live with chronic pain
* OTC NSAID's don't work for them
* in the amounts they need to control pain they'll die from liver/kidney failure first
* many have been pushed off their pain meds abruptly and are going through withdrawals
* this leaves them with 3 choices:
a. live with the sometime unbearable pain
b. commit suicide
c. buy opioids on the street and risk death from OD
They've tried to get other doctors to help them to no avail. Many doctors hang signs on their front door "No pain patients accepted".
I'd like to think most doctors try their very best for their patients. My cousin is a pain management specialist, went to University of Michigan medical school, one of the top doctors in the country. While he is VERY careful about prescribing opioids, he absolutely will give them to those he feels warrants a prescription. And he always makes sure they keep them in a locked, safe place where family members cannot steal them, or at least strongly encourages them to do so. He was recently on BBC for this and it's good advice. He monitors carefully so it's not like people can just stay on them forever unchecked. Not at his practice, anyhow.
If anything, I believe this is a step in the right direction. Drugs that strong should be a last resort honestly. I have seen too many people get hooked on them before taking it further. That is how it usually starts. The overprescribing of them is much of the reason why it has become a national emergency. Most people don't start snorting and shooting. In general it starts with a prescription after surgery and progresses from there.
Need? I got prescriptions, I just didn't fill them because I didn't feel the need.
How can they decide? What incentive do they have for saying no?
Someone comes in and wants pain killers, so they get a prescription. Why not eliminate the middle man? Just let people go to the dispensary and buy them.
Ohhhh brother are you out of the loop!
99% of the doctors out there are not even seeing patients for pain. Try it. Call a Dr's office and when the receptionist asks, "What is this for" just say "I have horrible pain. I think I need some pain pills." Watch how quickly she says "We don't prescribe pain pills here but he'd be happy to see you for something else." Even if a miracle occurs and you do wrangle a script out of him just try to get a pharmacist to agree to fill it. It's either "We're out" or "We only fill these for our regular customers" or "I can't fill this for you, I'm sorry."
Go ahead and try. Report back and let us know what happened. See if I'm not right.
I have had and do have an opioid rx for chronic pain, with never any issue re filling a prescription. No one has said anything at all about any planned changes, none are expected.
My provider office has that sign on the door but they are warning drug abusers they don't play their game. Once they established the accuracy of my situation, they have been happy to prescribe for me.
Btw...as a med professional, i assure you no md would "push" a pt off pain meds without a decreasing dose in increments where the pt would not be subject to withdrawal symptoms.
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In March, 2016, the CDC released guidelines for prescribing opioids. Since the guidelines were released, reports of pain patients being abruptly cut off of their medication or having their medication abruptly reduced have become rampant.
These patients report they were using opioids long term, sometimes for decades, with no evidence of addiction. Many patients who moved long distances report being unable to find a doctor who would treat them, or, if they found one, who would give them their usual dosage of medication. These patients report significant increases in pain and severe deterioration in function. Usually, no alternative treatments were offered.
I'd like to think most doctors try their very best for their patients. My cousin is a pain management specialist, went to University of Michigan medical school, one of the top doctors in the country. While he is VERY careful about prescribing opioids, he absolutely will give them to those he feels warrants a prescription. And he always makes sure they keep them in a locked, safe place where family members cannot steal them, or at least strongly encourages them to do so. He was recently on BBC for this and it's good advice. He monitors carefully so it's not like people can just stay on them forever unchecked. Not at his practice, anyhow.
If anything, I believe this is a step in the right direction. Drugs that strong should be a last resort honestly. I have seen too many people get hooked on them before taking it further. That is how it usually starts. The overprescribing of them is much of the reason why it has become a national emergency. Most people don't start snorting and shooting. In general it starts with a prescription after surgery and progresses from there.
What's his business name? I'd like to give him my business. I'm a legitimate patient in pain.
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