Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are we experiencing a change in our society where shooting heroine is becoming the new normal.
.
We have many festering problems and I'm really concerned what the next 25 years will bring to our decaying society.
Actually I don't see it so much as a change in our society but rather as a panic in our society.
One thing I noticed about the good ole USA is that we ignore problems until they hit critical mass and then we start trying anything and every thing.
We are in the middle of a hellacious opiod addiction but substance abuse has ALWAYS been an issue. when crack/cocaine hit the scene and devastated communities, our answer to it was to label women as Crack 'ho's and to lock millions of folks up. Well that didn't work out so well and now we have the opiod problem and because of who it's affecting they don't know what to do.
We never address our issues because they are always "someone" else's issues, someone society feels is dispensable. now we've got a problem that is effecting all walks of life and it's all hands on deck.
I feel the same way about illegal immigration, lol restaurants and rich folks have been hiring illegals since I was a kid, at least 50 years. I grew up in NY everybody on the upper east side had an illegal "housekeeper". now that the issue has grown and it's hitting the pockets of others, oh now it's a problem.
I was just reading about a possible pilot program coming to my area where intravenous drug users would have a safe place to go to inject their heroine and there will be staff on hand to save them if they should overdose.
What do you think about this? Is it a good or bad idea?
I'm just not sure the IVD users would actually utilize them. Long-term opiate addicts know exactly what Narcan is & they hate it.
I learned quickly that the first thing you do after administering Narcan to an overdosed addict; is to step back a safe distance because they just might wake up swinging. I've had a person who was in full Respiratory Arrest go from completely unresponsive to clutching my arm in a death-grip in a matter of 3 seconds, while he screamed: "What have you done!?" ... At me.
With the exception of Respiratory Arrest (which is a deal-breaker when making the decision to Narcan or not to Narcan), the symptoms a clinician would observe in a person as an indication to administer Narcan? Are actually the symptoms the addict has just spent his last $10 on trying to achieve. As counterintuitive as it may seem; the "slumping over while the eyes roll back in the head" presentation is exactly what the desired outcome of the dose is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo
I have to admit I got a chuckle when you said "removing the risks from their dangerous pursuit of the high". That is silly. First, the risk of getting addicted greatly outweighs the risk of getting caught. For someone who has made the decision to try something so risky, the law is the last thing on their mind.
But for the addict, the risk of getting addicted is a ship that has already sailed. The risk of getting addicted only appears as the worse evil to you or I. Law enforcement is the arch-enemy of the addict: It threatens their life-source which is their supply & those that supply it to them. While incurring another felony for possession or even distribution is not an immediate concern to the addict; the fact that they are going to spend any time in custody at all, even if able to bond out quickly, is the addicts greatest fear.
It interrupts their access to drugs & that means impending doom (even potential death) for the addict. That is why drug addiction becomes such a blight on society. Anything ... that interrupts the access; lack of money, losing a connection, even inclement weather & physical distance from the drug? Becomes an obstacle that must be overcome, no matter what the consequences may be.
If an addict is presented with this dilemma & spots ... me ... standing there with my car keys in my hand & my purse on my shoulder? I am nothing more than that obstacle. Those are the " risks from their dangerous pursuit of the high" that I am personally interested in removing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
I dunno - I guess that's why they are doing a pilot!
I'd rather they at least attempt to do some analysis from many angles in terms of effect on the population itself as well as impact on the community and cost effectiveness than just rely on opinion and assumptions.
Me too. I feel as though I have a "better than average" understanding of the issue but in reality what I bring to the table is just an opinion. Having evidence-based research is going to be the more valuable tool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHoVe
I can't say I support the government supplying addicts with heroin while 10's of thousands of otherwise productive citizens can't afford the better percription drugs they need to function for illnesses such as Parkinson's ect. ..
... So we can't help these people, most of whom would do literally anything to regain their health, because there is no money while at the same time we strive to accommodate addicts making sure that THEY stay comforable and safe!!!
I know; it doesn't seem right at all. The only thing we could hope for is that any interventions would begin to save the massive amounts of funding already being spent. Enough to make health care viable for everybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
Are we experiencing a change in our society where shooting heroine is becoming the new normal.
It really is crazy when you consider the slow moral decay of America. What used to be taboo and against the law is now common.
I would say that if these injection-sites keep people safer, cut down on the risk of diseases/infections and reduce neighborhood-blight, they are a good idea.
The problem is that eventually, in order to get the money for the narcotics, the person winds up committing crimes to supply their habit. A prostitute is providing an illegal service that people are willing to pay for. Wish they had other ways of getting the money, but unless there's a pimp feeding off them, it's at least consensual. But dealing and theft are probably the most common ways of getting money for drugs. Providing a safe, warm, comfortable, monitored place for the addict to inject the illegal drugs that he's probably paid for with money from an illegal source (dealing, prostitution, theft) really does seem to be more than society owes addicts.
I was just reading about a possible pilot program coming to my area where intravenous drug users would have a safe place to go to inject their heroine and there will be staff on hand to save them if they should overdose.
What do you think about this? Is it a good or bad idea?...
These are all hard questions but do you think that safe injection sites for drug users is a good idea?
My knee jerk reaction is negative when I thought "once a junkie, always a junkie," but I've learned that rehab DOES work, and at least there have been positive outcomes in the past for these sites. Here's one article from a cop in Vancouver BC regarding their view from experiences from 2003 - 2007.
Are the addicts supposed to bring their own drugs, thereby keeping their dealers and supply chain in business, or are the "safe sites" supposed to supply them with the illegal drugs too or are we going to legalize all injectable drugs, just to eliminate the needle issue?
And how are the addicts going to get to and from this site? Will the site allow them to drive themselves home and add to the car accidents caused by addicts driving home from methadone clinics?
As for the people claiming addicts don't like Narcan, many don't, but many have figured out that if they're revived with Narcan, they can shoot up again. EMS reports show they are now being called multiple times in one day for the same addict who's shooting up over and over after being dosed with Narcan.
Okay...I misunderstood and didnt know they would be bringing in drugs they had already acquired.
If this is funded by a non-profit then at least the people who feel this is not what they want their money spent on are free to not support the organization.
I really have to question using tax payer funds for this though...
And honestly I question the use of Narcan repeatedly on the same individuals. If someone was repeatedly attempting self harm or suicide by a different manner they would be locked up and recieve counseling...we don't create a sanctuary for those people to further engage in dangerous/self destructive behavior and allow them to just carry on self injuring but with medical supervision.
Last edited by SoHoVe; 11-30-2017 at 08:52 PM..
Reason: spelling error
I would say that if these injection-sites keep people safer, cut down on the risk of diseases/infections and reduce neighborhood-blight, they are a good idea.
How many people are going to be advocating for these to be in their neighborhood?
So are these going to end up in the same neighborhoods as the check cashing stores, strip clubs, liquor stores, pawn shops, and landfills, among the people who don't raise a stink (or don't have the political clout to) when anything else undesirable is plopped down in their neighborhood?
I guarantee you the same people who think these things are a great idea in theory will fight tooth and nail when word gets around that someone wants to put one of these in their backyard. Remember that opioid users in particular are often in suburbia and not "on the other side of the tracks" where all the other noxious uses go.
Heroin, and all that it's usage implies, is simply one more facet of American life which heretofore was swept under the rug. Now that it's usage is considered widespread the usual suspects are clamoring about in a pseudo indignation mode, claiming the moral high ground, while tying drug use to their favorite, but feared societal demons. Shooting galleries? Well, it's a substance which has utilized needles, so, yeah, we should be looking at some form of control if for no other reason than needles lying about are probably not a good idea.
We, as a nation have been way to slow in recognizing the real danger of drugs, and that is the criminal penalties for it's use. Like the many other substance we've outlawed, Heroin and Meth have been growing in popularity, marketed aggressively, and manufactured in ever greater quantities. Education and medical intervention seems to be the path to prevention, or, we can continue doing the same old countermeasure stuff by engaging law enforcement and our prisons, insanity=doing the same thing over and over while expecting different outcomes. When one path fails, try a new path.
Trotting out one's favorite moral pony, and then riding it around the forum proclaiming that "the end is near," serves no real purpose, further, drug use isn't the moral affront to the public well being that media insists it is. Addiction is in the medical realm when viewed in it's base form, overdosing, withdrawal, injection hygiene, and all too often, the poor diet of those so afflicted, are all best treated by medical personnel, not the police, courts, and the prison system. The placement of the safe sites should be well thought out, maybe even utilizing mobile units to discourage the congregating mentioned in another post.
Excellent post.
I don't know anyone on heroin but have known people who have OD'd on prescription drug pills.
Addiction needs treatment not prison.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
