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I believe he/she is trying to quantify what real poverty is.
Agreed. The stats simply don’t say America’s poor are actually poor, by any measurement.
Even by a loose definition, only Canada, Australia, and Sweden’s bottom 10% have a higher quality of life than America’s bottom 10% according to The Economist. https://b-i.forbesimg.com/timworstal...inequality.png
Agreed. The stats simply don’t say America’s poor are actually poor, by any measurement.
Even by a loose definition, only Canada, Australia, and Sweden’s bottom 10% have a higher quality of life than America’s bottom 10% according to The Economist. https://b-i.forbesimg.com/timworstal...inequality.png
Than that refutes his argument, that our poor are the envy of the poor in other first world countries. Apparently the poor of Canada, Australia and Sweden are the envy of the poor in other first world countries.
I really don't know how you'd collect stats for a debate such as this in any case. Are they out polling homeless people to see how many TVs and nice cars they have?
The difference between the very poor people in the US and the very poor people in many other countries is huge.
Agreed but I think the biggest difference in the very poor in the US (and the rest of the 1st world) vs. the poor in undeveloped countries is the amount of work done. The very poor (and their children) in the developing world are laboring around the clock to eek out a very basic sustenance. Failure often means death. There is little or no burden on anyone outside of their own communities. Its easy to sympathize with their plight.
The very poor in the first world are effectively wards of the state. They are guaranteed a basic sustenance and perform very little labor in exchange for it.
I think we have an expectation that poor people here are better off here in the US and that's true for the most part, except in the case of the poorest in this country. For instance, I could say we have housing laws that keep people from living ten to a room or prevent people from living in shacks put together from tin and wood. But it's pretty obvious those housing laws don't apply when you can't afford them. The only thing is, in the US many of our poor are still out of sight, not all living in one huge slum of shacks. And does anyone think that's not coming?
Same thing when it comes to a place to go to the bathroom, getting clean drinking water and water to bathe with, sufficient food without going through dumpsters, etc.
The very poorest among us do live like a lot of third world citizens.
But the one thing that makes us stand out in the US as opposed to third world countries is we've also not had wars across our soil for years on end or have had religious or cultural genocide or have a huge refugee problem with half the country escaping to the other half and living in camps.
We have good things, too. We have laws here that we expect to be enforced and we have the legal means to address the wrongs done to us with an expectation of fairness. We (generally) don't have to worry about a coup d'etat and violence is expected to be controlled. Our police force is not corrupted to the degree it is in other countries, our representatives are more or less accessible, education is compulsory, health care (when you can get it), is excellent, food (when you can afford it) is widely available and sufficiently nutritious. Our water is usually clean, our streets are mainly safe, and more than anything else, most of us have some sort of hope things will get better in the future. On top of all that, we pass laws requiring a modicum of respect to citizens from their elected officials, the police force, people of different religions, races, colors, caste, or profession. It doesn't always work, but it's remarkable that we have a society that at least expects everyone to be treated equally.
Those are the things that make a country rich, even its poorest citizens.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 07-16-2018 at 12:20 PM..
Agreed but I think the biggest difference in the very poor in the US (and the rest of the 1st world) vs. the poor in undeveloped countries is the amount of work done. The very poor (and their children) in the developing world are laboring around the clock to eek out a very basic sustenance. Failure often means death. There is little or no burden on anyone outside of their own communities. Its easy to sympathize with their plight.
The very poor in the first world are effectively wards of the state. They are guaranteed a basic sustenance and perform very little labor in exchange for it.
Many, many of them use child labor, and many, many are slaves. A recent TV show (it might have been Vice, or 60 Minutes, I can't remember) on mining for the stuff they use in Lithium Ion batteries. I'm sorry to say I don't recall the country either, but somewhere in Africa). Demand is huge. Just as with the diamond mines, a few ruthless gangster-type men own all and these workers are very abused, working 20 hours a day with no breaks and little food or water. There were kids there working that looked like they were 5 or 6 years old. When they saw the cameras, the men zoomed the children out of sight quickly. In many of these places, they have no choice, not because they need money but because they aren't allowed to quit. In the diamond mines it has long been rumored the punishment for running away is they cut off the child's arm.
OP,
Your thesis does not stand up.
The cost of living is several times higher in the USA. The poor in other countries may well be able to live on a fraction of what it costs for essential goods in America. The real shame is a country as prosperous as you describe it would have any poverty at all.
There is no way impoverished people are lucky anywhere and saying so is just incomprehensible.
I don't think any sane person anywhere in the world who's not in the dire situations would envy the poor in the US. All these statistics prove very little. There's the 1400 sq ft of the supposedly average dwelling of a poor person. Well, fairly well off people cannot afford a much smaller place in a high rise in any large city... The poor live in very bad conditions, generally their dwellings are unsafe, unsanitary and uncomfortable. They live day to day scrounging money for food and shelter. Their jobs don't pay enough to maintain even their squalid living conditions.
No, I cannot see the point of posting such opinions and statistics. I don't envy the poor at all here or anywhere else. Before posting these threads it might be best to live homeless in the streets for a few months at least in order to experience first hand whether people do/would/should envy the poor in the US or not.
I've lived in Boston and Baltimore. Poverty is abundant in urban environs but it was slightly different.
No poor people have A/C. 42% definitely don't own their homes. They do not have Dishwashers.
Poor people in Baltimore have bigger homes prolly 1100 sqft versus 700 in Boston. Id. guess 30% of them own their homes.
Poor people in Boston have more technology/games in their homes, better schools but id say 10%-15% of them own their homes.
Car ownership in Boston for poor people was probably 25-33% and more like 50% in Baltimore.
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