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Old 10-03-2018, 11:22 AM
 
2,211 posts, read 1,572,124 times
Reputation: 1668

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No, they aren't.

The presumption of innocence TRUMPS Trial By Media.


I think Leftists really hate our country. And yet.. They won't move ?

 
Old 10-03-2018, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,999,558 times
Reputation: 3422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
These sorts of crimes are often he said/she said situations where it's hard to really prove if anything actually happened. Because of this they are notoriously difficult to prosecute, and guilty perpetrators are often set free. It's been said that it's better to let a thousand guilty people go free than let one innocent person be punished, but that leaves a lot of victims without justice in sex related crimes. Should the presumption of innocence apply to sex crimes, or in the interests of justice for victims should the onus be placed on the alleged perpetrator to prove their innocence?
First of all, it is up to the accuser (prosecuting attorney) to prove guilt, it isn't up to the accused to prove innocents.

Under the 5th amendment "No person shall be held for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury" and a person can not be deprived of Life, Liberty or Property, without DUE PROCESS of law.

If we start to convict a person in the court of public opinion deny them their due process, then no one is safe from prosecution.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,776 posts, read 24,277,952 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
First of all, it is up to the accuser (prosecuting attorney) to prove guilt, it isn't up to the accused to prove innocents.

Under the 5th amendment "No person shall be held for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury" and a person can not be deprived of Life, Liberty or Property, without DUE PROCESS of law.

If we start to convict a person in the court of public opinion deny them their due process, then no one is safe from prosecution.
I presume you're not talking about Kavanaugh.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,999,558 times
Reputation: 3422
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I presume you're not talking about Kavanaugh.
No, I'm talking about every person that may have an accusation thrown at them. Everyone is entitled to due process under the law.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,776 posts, read 24,277,952 times
Reputation: 32918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
No, I'm talking about every person that may have an accusation thrown at them. Everyone is entitled to due process under the law.
Well, you're very vague here.

Are you talking about a public accusation or a legal accusation?
 
Old 10-03-2018, 08:44 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,124,373 times
Reputation: 22695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
These sorts of crimes are often he said/she said situations where it's hard to really prove if anything actually happened. Because of this they are notoriously difficult to prosecute, and guilty perpetrators are often set free. It's been said that it's better to let a thousand guilty people go free than let one innocent person be punished, but that leaves a lot of victims without justice in sex related crimes. Should the presumption of innocence apply to sex crimes, or in the interests of justice for victims should the onus be placed on the alleged perpetrator to prove their innocence?
Heinous? seriously? OMG a very brief examination of sexual mores throughout history would make today's "heinous" sexual crimes look exceedingly bland by comparison.

What is heinous is to make innocent people languish in prison having been convicted without a "shadow of a doubt" of their guilt, including EVIDENCE to support claims. Give me a break.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 08:45 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,071 posts, read 10,093,479 times
Reputation: 17247
NO crime should be heinous enough to circumvent the notion of innocent until proven guilty.
 
Old 10-04-2018, 09:35 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 1,281,879 times
Reputation: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
NO crime should be heinous enough to circumvent the notion of innocent until proven guilty.
I agree. I would say, as heinous as any crime may be, throwing out the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" is even more heinous.
 
Old 10-07-2018, 09:11 AM
 
3,926 posts, read 2,034,204 times
Reputation: 2768
Default Why some aren't happy with the Kavanaugh outcome?

What's weird is...more and more of my friends are going nuts about this outcome. I thought the whole #MeToo movement was...about giving a victims an opportunity come forward. In the case of Ford, she was given a chance to come forward and put the now Supreme Court Judge to trail.

There had been quite a few MeToo situations where the courts did judge Bill Cosby and Weinstein guilty, however, not EVERY single of the accused will wind up guilty obviously. They ALL can't be winners, right?

But...I thought the whole purpose of the movement was to have women come forward, have their say, and put bring them on board for an appropriate hearing/process. Sometimes the outcomes will not be a "Guilty" verdict every time right?

Funny thing, I have women friends that posted praises, welcoming Kavanagh to the Supreme Court. That they were glad he was proven innocent.

In actuality, people are more concerned about THEIR side winning, than what really matters. But that's an entirely diff. convo. altogether.
 
Old 10-07-2018, 09:33 AM
 
17,604 posts, read 17,642,256 times
Reputation: 25663
Two words,...Emmit Till. Look it up.
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