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There is no silver bullet when it comes to sex trafficking... It is a false dichotomy to believe that one means the other.... That criminalization is trafficking and legalization means the opposite.
However, it will be a big step in the right direction to empower those involved, victimized, or those in position to recognize it to cooperate with the police.
In California, they no longer will seek prostitution charges against minor prostitutes. Those involved will still be charged with statutory rape which carries a much heavier penalty than solicitation. The minor prostitute however will be encouraged to seek authorities and cooperate without fear of being prosecuted themselves. Traffickers wont be able to leverage the fear of arrest against the minor.
I think the legal vs. illegal debate on sex work is missing a potentially valuable third option - non-coercive government intervention.
Perhaps the way our society should respond to sex work is to provide free career services to anyone engaging in sex work who wants to transition into another career, to make it much easier for them to do so when they need or want to stop sex work.
In other words, curtail the quasi-slavery that some are trapped in due to having difficulty obtaining other jobs, without stopping people who "just really really want to" be prostitutes.
I think the legal vs. illegal debate on sex work is missing a potentially valuable third option - non-coercive government intervention.
Perhaps the way our society should respond to sex work is to provide free career services to anyone engaging in sex work who wants to transition into another career, to make it much easier for them to do so when they need or want to stop sex work.
In other words, curtail the quasi-slavery that some are trapped in due to having difficulty obtaining other jobs, without stopping people who "just really really want to" be prostitutes.
Not possible unless it is decriminalized and or legalized. There are far worse jobs out their with lesser pay at higher risk.... Singling out sex work just reinforces the views that sexuality and sex work is a taboo and dirty... The same views that keep it illegal.
Rights always started from the bottom pushed upwards. As long as you have to hide.... The views against it will always exist.
Interracial couples had to hide for decades.... popularity was against it.. it was considered dirty and immoral. It wasn't until a couple was torn apart because of anti interracial laws did the challenge to the laws made it into courts and the beginning of legalization. It was only after legalization did interracial relationships began to become socially acceptable (still not acceptable in parts of the country).. Sadly.. this didn't happen until 1967 (so late) and a couple/family was harmed, forced out of their home state, and jailed.
The equivalent would be programs to transition people into racially acceptable relationships... that would just reinforce the idea that interracial relationships are immoral dirty and unacceptable. Programs for "career" transition from sex work also makes the false assumption that no woman would do this type of work willingly (which is incorrect) and they need savings (again incorrect).
Again... at its core.. this is about individual dominion over body. This isn't about a business, career, money.. etc.
Not possible unless it is decriminalized and or legalized. There are far worse jobs out their with lesser pay at higher risk....
Such as.....?
And if that is true, wouldn't that be actually an argument in favor of career support for a larger class of jobs, rather than denying it to some simply because "others have it even worse"?
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Originally Posted by usayit
Singling out sex work just reinforces the views that sexuality and sex work is a taboo and dirty... The same views that keep it illegal.
Really? Lots of things are taboo and dirty but not illegal. Just to name a few examples - using profanity in public, going missing as an adult, getting high on butane, not taking care of yourself as an adult, lying (when not on legal documents, making contracts, in court, or under oath). Legal, but dirty/bad/shady. I could add more but you get the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
Rights always started from the bottom pushed upwards. As long as you have to hide.... The views against it will always exist.
Interracial couples had to hide for decades.... popularity was against it.. it was considered dirty and immoral. It wasn't until a couple was torn apart because of anti interracial laws did the challenge to the laws made it into courts and the beginning of legalization. It was only after legalization did interracial relationships began to become socially acceptable (still not acceptable in parts of the country).. Sadly.. this didn't happen until 1967 (so late) and a couple/family was harmed, forced out of their home state, and jailed.
The equivalent would be programs to transition people into racially acceptable relationships... that would just reinforce the idea that interracial relationships are immoral dirty and unacceptable. Programs for "career" transition from sex work also makes the false assumption that no woman would do this type of work willingly (which is incorrect) and they need savings (again incorrect).
Again... at its core.. this is about individual dominion over body. This isn't about a business, career, money.. etc.
Bad analogy because prostitution is a totally different kind of relationship, while an interracial one is not.
And if that is true, wouldn't that be actually an argument in favor of career support for a larger class of jobs, rather than denying it to some simply because "others have it even worse"?
Mining.
Roofing.
Commercial fishing.
Logging..
There are other high risk choices... You are already enforcing the view that sex work in of itself is bottom of the barrel and unacceptable.
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Really? Lots of things are taboo and dirty but not illegal. Just to name a few examples - using profanity in public, going missing as an adult, getting high on butane, not taking care of yourself as an adult, lying (when not on legal documents, making contracts, in court, etc.) I could add more but you get the point.
This is a logical fallacy. A -> B doesn't necessarily prove B -> A.
Quote:
Bad analogy because prostitution is a totally different kind of relationship, while an interracial one is not.
No it is not... it is the same implications on the views society has on a particular situation and determines whether or not it is immoral or not. If it is illegal or something you are pushed to be ashamed of to hide it, naturally society will assume it is that way for some good reason.... immoral. Unless you legalize it, society will always assume that it is illegal because it is "bad". Interracial relationships was considered immoral, taboo, unacceptable, immoral for many decades. Legalizing/protecting people's choices over the relationships they enter into was the first step to changing society's views on interracial relationships.
Furthermore... if it is illegal and unacceptable by today's society's standards, what makes you think they would voluntarily step forwards for this "career training"? They barely have the ability to come forward in cases of rape and victimization because it is illegal.
Previous poster from Australia pointed out just one example in which a country has certain legal provisions for prostitution and thus resulting in society having lesser judgement against it.
Yes, there is, but thats only because there is a HUGE demand for that kind of thing today, (wasnt like this years ago).
Point is, if there wasnt much demand for 10-12 yr old prostitutes, they would not kidnap and force young girls into sex slavery.
Sadly... Sex slavery of children has existed for hundreds of years. Marriage of young princesses historically was used by powerful figures to solidify political agreements between countries... Just another form of prostitution. Sex slavery of all sorts of youth have been around as old as humanity itself.
We hear a lot more about it in the age of the internet when news is wide and travels fast... It also provides access....
However, the internet could also be used to fight it... But FOSTA/SESTA is a major step backwards created by those that are ignorant of the situation.
Sadly... Sex slavery of children has existed for hundreds of years. Marriage of young princesses historically was used by powerful figures to solidify political agreements between countries... Just another form of prostitution. Sex slavery of all sorts of youth have been around as old as humanity itself.
We hear a lot more about it in the age of the internet when news is wide and travels fast... It also provides access....
However, the internet could also be used to fight it... But FOSTA/SESTA is a major step backwards created by those that are ignorant of the situation.
I wish I believed the bolded part. I guess it would be giving them the benefit of the doubt that they honestly had good intentions. I'm sure some of those involved did.
My hypothesis was that investigative agencies were able to use trails from the internet to track and catch those exploiting children. And it isn't some poor or middle class creep in a basement doing that. It requires money to keep them fed, moved, silent, hidden...there are reasons why we hear about cases like Epstein. So with the heat getting turned up and the possibility that watchdog groups or legit authorities might blow the lid off and expose people at the top, they had to burn the trail.
Do you have any thoughts on this? Because my opinion is that if it was all the "good intentions" behind getting this legislation pushed through, the people signing off on it wouldn't even care. This way they protect their own and virtue-signal to their voters at the same time.
To the subject though, what bothers me about it is, as you've been saying, this idea that no one would want to do this if they had a choice and it's dirty and shameful and bad. You know, if a person loved making art, and managed to make art for a living, and make enough to live on, everyone would applaud them for finding a way to authentically do what they love as their career in life. I think it circles around to the idea that a woman cannot possible just enjoy sex. Not unless she is suitably persuaded by emotional bonding, or unless she is very attracted, or unless she is given commitment and security, or unless she wants a baby...cannot possibly just be a woman enjoying sex for its own sake, and being perfectly willing to do it for a living if someone is willing to pay.
And of course, some guy out there would like for that pretty woman to be his very own property that no other man can touch and there are men who cannot get a woman to be their very own easily, and they might be mad that there are women who do not want to faithfully pair in a sexually exclusive way. Seems to me, lots and lots of men want that. All the extra control that comes with the monogamous relationship contract. You might both pay in your whole lives to that, but it's proper. Compare to a prostitute who, once the agreed upon activity is done and paid for, she's free to do anyone or anything she wants for the rest of the day, weekend, life...
Sometimes I just feel like the standard issue relationship structure (particularly with regard to how sex is controlled) as it is assumed to be "normal" and everyone assumes it's how all this works and how all normal people want it...it feels like a bad deal at times, honestly. And as an alternative life path for how people might choose to have sexual relations, it seems threatening to this institutionalized standard. I can't think of any other reason that the traditionalist would regard another adult's freely consented way of life and be so upset about it that they want it to not be an option at all.
A prostitute fortunate enough to be able to operate in a society where it's not stigmatized and legislated against has an awful lot of freedom. And I see some people who (in my opinion) just want to sustain the illusion that living in a cage is better, it's normal, it's how it's done, and be angry at the wild bird for wanting to fly free. "Must be she had no other choice." Not from what I hear.
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