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Premeditation, as a simple legal issue. It completely changes interpretation of homicide even though the latter always means one person killed another.
Civil rights, as a more nebulous but still quite relevant issue. That someone attacked someone else because of the individual's ancestry and life choices is just another form of premeditation... and changes the fundamental nature of the crime(s) committed.
I am aware of that, but premeditation is not a motive.
It is neither necessary nor sufficient to lend credence to the premise that a crime is hate-based.
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Motives for crimes, especially violent ones, should only be used to mitigate the offense, not aggravate it.
Hence, there should be no such thing as a 'hate' crime, nor should it be penalized any more harshly than it's 'good? twin', the non-hate crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
That is the same as saying that no one should ever be charged with terrorism. Much of the motivation in hate crimes is to scare or terrorize people similar to the victims. Did the people who flew into the world Trade buildings only murder and vandalize or did they terrorize Americans? Does the killing of blacks o, Jews or LBGT folks because they are who they are consist of only murder but did it intend to scare or terrorize blacks, Jews or LBGT community.?
The message of getting rid of hate crimes sends the message that it is alright to have certain groups, usually minorities or those with less power, terrorized That it is not a great deal.
The statement that hate-crimes, when premeditated, might have a terror-based content, is true.
Which shows how flawed and screwed up the 'terrorist' label has become.
It is now, IMO, being used rather recklessly to justify extraordinary government interventions in several countries that find it a useful tool for extralegal and/or oppressive policies.
So yes, I agree that no one should ever be charged with terrorism.
Premeditated murder will do the job well enough.
Also a common opinion of many males about Feminism, and in Oz, from hard -done-by non custodial [males] after a divorce.
We live in traditionally patriarchal societies. The dominance and privilege of males is still entrenched at a visceral level. To such an extent that many/most are not consciously aware
In my opinion, we are still at least a century away from feminism being simply accepted at the same cultural level.
I think the goes for the still massive problem of race for the US
---I won't even dare start on guns
Here's a thought; how many members in the NRA? 2--3 million? Have a campaign for people ho want to change gun laws to join the NRA, and take it over by sheer force of numbers? I guess I will see little piggies flying around my kitchen before THAT happens
There are plenty of others racists crimes by other races but when we hear the words hate crime it is always a white hate crime. The media reports it that way. What about blacks crimes against whites. The media doesn't even call them hate crimes.
Sorry, but that's not true. I've heard it apply to black crimes. Asians, though, don't seem to engage in attacks much.
Why does it make a difference if someone commits murder for revenge, or money, or because of skin color. The poor victim is just as dead. The murder is just as evil. Hate crimes are just pandering to minorities by liberals to get their votes.
For one thing, hate crimes often do not involve murder. They involve all sorts of things.
I can imagine it would be quite a blow to your world view, if you came to believe that liberals were as sincere in their concern for the less fortunate, as you are in your concern for yourself and your privilege. Luckily that is unlikely.
Because it's easy. White people don't have a race card to play to excuse bad behavior.
I've got news for you: Go live for a while among the expats in a foreign country, and just watch them play the race card. I saw white expats living in Thailand do it all the time.
Not unlikely when there is a love triangle. most violent crimes are crimes of passion, friend and family disputes, and gang related. Sometimes it is the result of a robbery gone wrong.
A hate crime is when the victim's color, ethnicity or orientation is the primary factor.
My point is that a person that kills or harms "anyone" shouldn't be considered as a better person or the act a lesser crime just because hate wasn't a factor. The end result is the same. A person is dead. A crime is a crime and the criminal should be punished accordingly whether it was a for hate, enjoyment, attention or whatever. One of these factors isn't better than the other. They are all equally bad with the same result.
I believe that crimes of passion are another category because they are restricted to a specific social circle and aren't normally random. The punishment shouldn't necessarily be less, but the fact that the perpetrator wasn't a threat to outsiders makes it a less threatening crime to the general public than a random crime or crime aimed at a person or group with a specific agenda or identity.
I believe in equality. I think that if someone kills anyone, they should get the same punishment as a "hate" killer. Murder is murder.
This is my opinion and it means absolutely nothing to anyone except me probably, but that's O.K. I am a fan of nice people.
I've got news for you: Go live for a while among the expats in a foreign country, and just watch them play the race card. I saw white expats living in Thailand do it all the time.
Apples and oranges. I am sorry, but we live in a country that is wealthy, practices equal opportunity and gives many advantages to people of color and from other countries. We do that because we have lots of resources and believe in helping those that can't help themselves (and millions of others too). I have lived in foreign countries. This is not the situation there. We are looked at as wealthy Americans (all of us) and are victims of jealousy, resentment, stereotyping, and racial prejudice in many 3rd world countries. Generally, Americans don't get lots of respect in most foreign countries. This has been the case many, many decades. I lived in Europe for many years. I've lived in Asia, South America, and Europe. Being an American and using a "race" card would be a joke in 99 percent of the places. It just doesn't work for white people. The world, thanks to movies, media, and obnoxious travelers, feels that white privilege is prevalent. The world is full of ignorant people. Racism against whites is rampant in the world and the race card usually can't be played.
Last edited by Jewkranian; 04-20-2019 at 08:09 AM..
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