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Largely due to the extreme measures taken, Dr. Fauci now estimates that U.S. deaths from COVID-19 will now total between 100,000 and 200,000 instead of the previous estimate of up to about ten times that number that some other experts had predicted. https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronaviru...ry?id=69859267
So IF the final U.S. death toll from COVID-19 turns out to be about 150,000 (or less), if you figure in the despair of those who lost their jobs or businesses and might not recover, the possible violence due to shortages, the increased domestic abuse resulting from people being forced to stay home to some extent, medical personnel losing their lives because of caring for the sick, the stress and worry about loved ones, and the trillions of dollars that taxpayers will end up paying -- and also knowing that the usual number of deaths annually in the U.S. is about 3,000,000 -- do you think the extreme measures taken to prevent possibly hundreds of thousands more deaths will have been worth it?
P.S. As I personally have not formed an opinion on this question yet, I will not be debating anyone who responds, but I will most definitely be reading any responses that this post receives, so thanks in advance.
I think so!
Initially the death rates were high and we had no idea how bad they could be (since it was a novel virus particularly with other CoVs like MERS and SARS) thus the best and safe measure was to act as if the worst could happen not he other way around. Given that the 'rules' in place for stopping the rate and severity of the infection definitely had and impact on this I think the answer has to be YES even if afterwards we see that only 1% or less of cases died!
A vaccine that can be given to a disease sufferer and bring about an end to the affliction is called a CUREâ„¢ and it is a real pity that more aren't available. Cures just aren't profitable in the way that they used to be. It took 40 years to get a viable HIV 'vaccine' to market, I think they call it PREP. When you study how it's taken, and the cost. That's why your aunt's research and intellectual property had to be deep sixed. NPP. I've said too much already
Exactly my thoughts. At the time it was infuriatingly confusing. Today it makes so much sense.
I am very hazy on the details, because I am not a virologist or epidemiologist but, as I understand it, back in the Middle Ages, people were taking sticks and scratching the arms of healthy people with fluid taken from the pustules of SmallPox sufferers or whatever Plague calamity was bothering the Kingdom. More than a thousand years later, the process of vaccination is somewhat more refined. Somewhat. Are we ashamed yet?!
Recent posts have changed my thinking about how likely it is that we will mass vaccinate our way out of Covid-19. IMO it will be mandatory to at least identify the 80% of the population that already has adequate antibodies so that what vaccine can be manufactured is not wasted on those with natural immunity. Or is that too obvious? God help us if the diabetic, overweight, old or otherwise co-morbid cannot take the vaccine and will depend on me and mine paying full ticket for the good of the order.
More than ever, this time the answer looks like a CUREâ„¢ vs the usual vaccine BS status quo. It is one thing to just hold the hands of the dying during Covid-19 version 1.0, how is it going to look going forward when the total number of Covid dead, year over year (you know they will be keeping count) heads into the millions? Friends, we need a 'one and done' for this, don't let anybody tell you different. I am not an anti-vaxxer but it is getting a little surreal up in here. The average two year old has some 34 different viral signatures injected into their circulatory system, and more are coming on line as we speak. WTH. As the good Dr. McCoy would say, "Medieval Jim, positively Medieval ...
Sorry, but when you say you are not an anti-vaxxer but refer to "the usual vaccine BS status quo" and ask, "Are we ashamed yet?!" of vaccines, then you are anti-vax.
The process you are describing is called variolation, was for smallpox, and it worked, though at considerable risk of severe infection and death. See the link for how it was done.
Here are the vaccines recommended for the two to three year old age group. Of those, seven are for viruses (the rotavirus vaccine is oral). The rest are for bacterial infections. Even if you add up all the organisms and count the pneumonia vaccine as 13 organisms there are still not "34 different viral signatures" and vaccines are not "injected into" anyone's "circulatory system". As far as new vaccines are concerned, why is being able to protect children against more infections that can cause misery, disability, and death a Bad Thing?
four doses of diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTaP) vaccine
three doses of inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV)
three or four doses of Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib) vaccine
one dose of measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine
three doses of hepatitis B vaccine (HBV)
one dose of chickenpox (varicella) vaccine
two or three doses of rotavirus vaccine (RV)
four doses of pneumococcal conjugate vaccines (PCV, PPSV)
one or two doses of hepatitis A vaccine (HAV)
Sorry, but an ounce of prevention is still worth a pound of CUREâ„¢.
How do you calculate that 80% of the population already has antibodies? I would love to read your source, because if 80% have antibodies we would have herd immunity and COVID-19 cases would come to a screeching halt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
A vaccine that can be given to a disease sufferer and bring about an end to the affliction is called a CUREâ„¢ and it is a real pity that more aren't available. Cures just aren't profitable in the way that they used to be. It took 40 years to get a viable HIV 'vaccine' to market, I think they call it PREP. When you study how it's taken, and the cost. That's why your aunt's research and intellectual property had to be deep sixed. NPP. I've said too much already
There are no vaccines that effect a cure. Vaccines are preventative, not curative. There is no "Viable HIV vaccine". PrEP is a combination of two antiviral drugs. It's a pill, taken once a day. What is there to "study" about "how it is taken"? Yes, it is expensive, and there is financial assistance available to reduce copays and for people without insurance.
By the way, HIV was discovered in 1983. It hasn't even been known for 40 years yet.
Also by the way, there is a CUREâ„¢ for hepatitis C. It makes worldwide eradication of the virus possible, at which point the CUREâ„¢ will no longer be needed.
Her aunt lost her funding. Other researchers kept on researching. Nothing was "deep sixed".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
One of the harder ones? No, you mean one of the more recent ones. Back in the day they would have CUREDâ„¢ HIV or died trying. Now they come up with 'regimens' and call it good. And why not, if you can make Billions on half assed regimens, why bust your balls on a CURE? When insulin was discovered the inventors voluntarily declined patent protection. That didn't last of course and it is definitely patented and sold for profit. Although the making of it is down to a science, the cost increases year over year and it is now in the unaffordable category. Middle Class Americans are selling Plasma to afford their insulin. Middle Class Americans are (were) going to Mexico to buy affordable Insulin. Middle Class Americans are dying because they cannot afford Insulin. And y'all's think they are going to give Covid-19 vaccine away ... sacre bleu.
"Back in the day"? You mean the way they CUREDâ„¢ measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, polio, smallpox - all those infections? Did you know there is still no CUREâ„¢ for any of those?
Pricing of insulin is a topic for a different day, and there is no reason for anyone in the US to sell plasma in order to buy insulin or die from lack of it. There is help available, and the doctor prescribing it can assist in finding it. You are aware that insulin is not a CUREâ„¢ for diabetes, are you not?
For patients in the US many will be able to get a vaccine for COVID-19 at no out of pocket cost, and since getting people vaccinated will be crucial to ending the mitigation measures we have now, the taxpayers will almost certainly be subsidizing the cost for those who do not have insurance.
A vaccine that can be given to a disease sufferer and bring about an end to the affliction is called a CUREâ„¢ and it is a real pity that more aren't available. Cures just aren't profitable in the way that they used to be. It took 40 years to get a viable HIV 'vaccine' to market, I think they call it PREP. When you study how it's taken, and the cost. That's why your aunt's research and intellectual property had to be deep sixed. NPP. I've said too much already
I think there's various Hep C "cures" that cost from 5 to 6 figures for the full treatment to get the virus cleared from your body and can be quite profitable for the drug companies that make them. So I wouldn't necessarily say cures aren't profitable in the way they used to be, since there's always more diseases out there, even maybe one caused by a new, novel coronavirus!
I think there's various Hep C "cures" that cost from 5 to 6 figures for the full treatment to get the virus cleared from your body and can be quite profitable for the drug companies that make them. So I wouldn't necessarily say cures aren't profitable in the way they used to be, since there's always more diseases out there, even maybe one caused by a new, novel coronavirus!
Except that the hep C cure also reduces the spread of hep C, so the treatment reduces the number of new cases. That means fewer people to treat, and diminishing profits for the drug makers.
Theoretically, hep C could be eradicated worldwide by finding and treating everyone with it, though that is no going to happen any time soon.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 04-15-2020 at 08:28 PM..
Except that the hep C cure also reduces the spread of hep C, so the treatment reduces the number of new cases. That means fewer people to treat, and diminishing profits for the drug makers.
Theoretically, hep C could be eradicated worldwide by finding an treating everyone with it, though that is no going to happen any time soon.
I actually recently heard that Hep C infections in the US have increased 3x over the past decade.
At least there's some good treatments out there now for Hep C (besides getting a liver transplant ), as compared to 20-30 years ago.
What a horribly materialistic way to look at things... This is a 'novel' virus. There was no textbook or manual that could tell you what to do. There was no way to predict with fine tooth precision how much to spend or how many lives could be saved with x amount of dollars.
The truth is you do the best with what you have. When the president said he wanted to let the virus wash over the country so the economy wasn't interrupted, Dr Fauci stepped up and said that was wrong. He predicted people would die, but minimizing the death and sparing lives was priority. I think most Americans would feel some form of common ground with the good doctor.
Dr. Fauci's predictions haven't always been accurate. He had to defend his stance because of previous statements. Same with the WHO and CDC, who've changed their stances a lot since January (WHO claiming it's not transmissible human to human, what a big embarrassment on the part of a major health authority).
"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."
Now we're being ordered to wear anything to cover our noses and mouths.
Do you see how that makes people question the experts?
Dr. Fauci's predictions haven't always been accurate. He had to defend his stance because of previous statements. Same with the WHO and CDC, who've changed their stances a lot since January (WHO claiming it's not transmissible human to human, what a big embarrassment on the part of a major health authority).
"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."
Now we're being ordered to wear anything to cover our noses and mouths.
Do you see how that makes people question the experts?
But then people say we should listen to Trump instead, but he makes a 5th grader look like a genius!
Also, at least people like Dr. Fauci is acknowledging their mistakes, making it known, and updating us with the correct information. I've worked with people who were too pigheaded to admit they were wrong nor change course, and that makes it worse because the trust level for those folks are far worse.
A 2017 study indicated a mortality burden, at 290,000-650,000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone, and a 2019 study estimated 99,000-200,000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza.
So if Covid-19 stands at 152,550 worldwide deaths, it still hasn't cracked the lower bound of normal influenza-associated deaths.
Of course, the issue has always been what would the death toll be without these extraordinary mitigation measures to control the number of infections.
Was it worth it? You'll never get everyone to agree on an answer to that question.
Sweden had no quarantine or stay at home orders and now they have 1,400 dead or 139 deaths per million people. Sweden is under severe criticism for not having a quarantine, but its death rate is well below most European countries, but it is very high for a Nordic, German, Baltic or an East European country.
"Deaths/1Million pop"
445 Belgium
419 Spain
376 Italy
286 France
215 UK
202 Netherlands
153 Switzerland
139 Sweden
115 Luxembourg
107 Ireland
76 Monaco
64 Portugal
58 Denmark
50 Germany
46 Austria
32 Slovenia
30 Norway
29 Estonia
26 Iceland
26 Liechtenstein
21 Romania
16 Czechia
16 Hungary
15 Finland
14 Moldova
14 Bosnia and Herzegovina
13 Serbia
12 Lithuania
10 Greece
10 Cyprus
9 PolandPoland
9 Croatia
9 Albania
8 Montenegro
7 Malta
6 Bulgaria
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That's why your aunt's research and intellectual property had to be deep sixed. NPP. I've said too much already 
), as compared to 20-30 years ago.
