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If there is middleground, hard to find it here on C-D!
Yup. A lot of straight partisan “thinkers” here. Not much room for heterodox thinking here.
Again, though, for the third time, these measures are designed to make deaths low enough for you to wonder what the whole kerfuffle was about. The lower, the better. They’ll be lower simply by us not spreading it and invading our hospitals.
Yup. A lot of straight partisan “thinkers” here. Not much room for heterodox thinking here.
Again, though, for the third time, these measures are designed to make deaths low enough for you to wonder what the whole kerfuffle was about. The lower, the better. They’ll be lower simply by us not spreading it and invading our hospitals.
And again, for the fifth time, its hardly something to be proud of if 'only' 25K Americans die from Covid and the hospitals don't have to play "who gets the ventilators today", but 250K die from Covid related: despair, unemployment, starvation, or domestic violence. The hospitals should have been up to it. That they aren't is what we should be talking about.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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US-A, old guys are sacrificing ourselves so that the next Pandemic can be effectively combated. The present Covid19 will be eventually be solved using us 'old guys' as the lab rats for experimental treatments.
US-A, old guys are sacrificing ourselves so that the next Pandemic can be effectively combated. The present Covid19 will be eventually be solved using us 'old guys' as the lab rats for experimental treatments.
The elderly and otherwise vulnerable are the ones being protected by the shutdowns. If this goes badly, today's youth may someday be cursing their grandparents as the reason for the destruction of this country and their futures.
And again, for the fifth time, its hardly something to be proud of if 'only' 25K Americans die from Covid and the hospitals don't have to play "who gets the ventilators today", but 250K die from Covid related: despair, unemployment, starvation, or domestic violence. The hospitals should have been up to it. That they aren't is what we should be talking about.
Hospitals are equipped for day to day things. Not a big onslaught. You wouldn’t equip your factory for much more than you make, either. Wasted capacity doesn’t play for at least 95% of the time, if not more.
Equipping yourself for a future thing which you don’t have any concept of isn’t realistic.
Hospitals are equipped for day to day things. Not a big onslaught. You wouldn’t equip your factory for much more than you make, either. Wasted capacity doesn’t play for at least 95% of the time, if not more.
Equipping yourself for a future thing which you don’t have any concept of isn’t realistic.
I think when this is over, we'll all support the idea of a national strategic medical stockpile.
Hospitals are equipped for day to day things. Not a big onslaught. You wouldn’t equip your factory for much more than you make, either. Wasted capacity doesn’t play for at least 95% of the time, if not more.
Equipping yourself for a future thing which you don’t have any concept of isn’t realistic.
Emergency preparedness is having a plan for when an epidemic strikes; not a day-to-day winging it. Telling the states they are on their own for finding medical supplies when it happens isn't emergency preparedness. Pandemics aren't something that never happened before and outside the realm of happening again.
Just like what if a country bombed us; you don't develop the play book when it happens.
The real problem is we rely on China to provide medical supplies and equipment.
Last edited by Maddie104; 04-13-2020 at 07:11 AM..
Hospitals are equipped for day to day things. Not a big onslaught. You wouldn’t equip your factory for much more than you make, either. Wasted capacity doesn’t play for at least 95% of the time, if not more.
Equipping yourself for a future thing which you don’t have any concept of isn’t realistic.
So ... do I have this right ... it makes sense ... it is acceptable, that, for an illness that 98% of people survive, to completely tank national economies because hospitals have zero overcapacity? Alrighty then. We'll see how that flies going forward. Hospital administrators will insist that this is just how it has to be ... national leaders will say "no, hell no". Stay tuned. BTW this was predicted. Nor is this our first brush with Pandemic. "thing which you don't have any concept of" is simply not applicable here.
Hard to say, and my mind and opinion has changed often as more data comes into play.
First, we were told that this thing kills 2-3% of people it infects, that was initial February type of knowledge. That didn’t sound TOO scary but scary enough at least to be a huge cause for concern. Scary enough that you start running the numbers and saying, wait that’s 6-9 million Americans?! That’s extremely high, we have to avoid that.
Then last week we see the study published that it’s actually about 0.67% mortality rate, with half of people having zero symptoms whatsoever. Hmmm... and in that was a 0.15% fatality rate for anyone under 50. And the further WHO study showing 95% of deaths in Europe were people over 60.
Now yesterday a German study comes out saying the mortality rate is actually 0.37% of everyone infected because so many don’t report any symptoms or very low symptoms. It now seems the 2-3% number is more like “2-3% of people with severe symptoms will die of the virus,” and not “2-3% of anyone at all who ever gets it will die.” Those are hugely different things and different numbers.
The seasonal flu kills 0.1% of people it infects. But we know even just from the regular anecdotal reports that you simply don’t see 20, 30, 40 year old people in good health ever dying from the flu. That just doesn’t happen, to my knowledge. But they are from Coronavirus, so clearly it’s not “just the flu” and that wouldn’t be fair to suggest. However, early on some people said this is a strong flu and were ridiculed for their idiocy - I now think those people were “more right than wrong” as 3.5x as deadly as the flu isn’t 20-30x as deadly as the flu, and it’s certainly closer in mortality to the flu than to, say, SARS or Ebola or something horrific.
Bottom line for me, many states are violating the Constitution like it means nothing and like a relatively manageable health crisis excuses their behavior in destroying our economy and our civil rights. It’s not a political thing, you can find democrat governors and republican ones in almost equal measure doing the same things. I personally don’t think any of this was worth it and I don’t think history will judge it well. I think it’ll become obvious - as it is to me in real time as we learn more - that the cure is worse than the disease. I think the panic has outweighed the science completely and it’s like some bizarre Onion piece: “Old People Learn Death Might Happen.” Yes, when you’re old, anything can kill you, even a virus with a 0.37% mortality rate. Iceland has done mass testing and their results confirm the German study - it’s just not that deadly. Not compared to the bill of goods we were sold.
I hate the flu, so when someone says “just the flu” they’re being idiots because the flu IS a big deal! I can’t think of anything else that’s worse besides traumatic injuries and cancer. On a regular basis the flu is the worst thing that happens. Sick for a week, often lose 10-12 pounds, any muscular strength for some reason takes about 8-10 weeks to rebuild after the flu in my experience, and you feel like death during it. So by no means do I want to get something that could be obviously much worse than the flu (I say “could be” because if you’re in the lucky half that has zero symptoms, you won’t even know you got it). Washing your hands, avoiding large gatherings, these are all sensible things. But when a governor starts saying you shouldn’t visit your family under penalty of law that’s where I draw the line. I am choosing not to visit my 70+ year old relatives (4 of them) who live right near me, we have mutually decided that’s the smart path. I don’t need the government to tell me what to do, though, nor do I think it’s any of their business.
The difference between some people is anything whatsoever seems to them a good excuse to remove our rights and civil liberties. To me, I’d rather 10,000 more people die to preserve the freedom and rights that millions of people fought and died for in the past to guarantee to American citizens. You may win the battle by draconian violations of our rights and destruction of our economy, but you’ve surely lost the war.
I do t claim that’s a prescriptive way to go. Just saying that’s how we got here. Hospitals don’t really make money. They weren’t going to equip themselves for this.
To the extent we had a national stockpile, I can’t claim to be an expert, but I don’t know how I’d have equipped it anyway. That’s why peepers look crazy. They prepare for everything, because they have as much of a crystal ball and you and I do.
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