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In the 1930's, rigid airships like theGraf Zeppelin and Hindenburg were making transatlantic crossings. At the time, they were faster than ocean liners and could cross the Atlantic in about 2 days, as opposed to the 5 needed by contemporary ships like Queen Mary. Fixed wing aircraft were not viable forms of public transportation yet, and it would take another two decades for them to really take off.
The R101 and Hindenburg disasters of 1930 and 1937 respectively, and the advances in airplane technology during WW2 essentially put an end to rigid airship development.
Ignoring airplanes, do you think rigid airships could compete with ocean liners in the long run? Other than speed, they weren't capable of transporting nearly as many passengers and were far less luxurious than a ship would be at the time.
As a side note, I wanted to ask, whether there were any other airships besides Graf Zeppelin andHindenburg that crossed the Atlantic as passenger vessels?
P.S. I just realized I posted this in Great Debates, when I meant for it to be under History. Mods feel free to move it.
Not sure why the mods haven't moved this to History yet. But to answer the question, no, I don't think that airships were ever a viable competitor to ocean liners. It's all about economies of scale. An ocean liner could transport maybe 3,000 passengers, whereas an airship could carry, what, maybe 50? There's no way that airships could have ever been more than niche players in the trans-Atlantic passenger trade, even if the R-101 and Hindenburg had never crashed.
If you look at it, they really weren't competing with ocean liners. Totally different market. In a way they were like a very early version of FedExing people. Ocean liners moved mass numbers of people at an economic rate across the ocean. Much like the large container ships of today. Airships moved a few people, fast, for a much higher cost. Like today the airplane carries that envelope across the ocean overnight, but you pay a premium for it.
Almost all of the rigid airships were lost to bad weather incidents. Not enough safety even for military use, although rumors circulate that the special forces have lighter than air systems for infiltration missions.
The Hindenburg pretty much ended the viability of the hydrogen filled rigid airship as passenger transport, and rightfully so. They were incredibly dangerous, fragile, not particularly easy to pilot and pretty much could not fly through inclement weather.
Do you think rigid airships were a viable competitor to ocean liners?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident
In the 1930's, rigid airships like theGraf Zeppelin and Hindenburg were making transatlantic crossings. At the time, they were faster than ocean liners and could cross the Atlantic in about 2 days, as opposed to the 5 needed by contemporary ships like Queen Mary. Fixed wing aircraft were not viable forms of public transportation yet, and it would take another two decades for them to really take off.
The R101 and Hindenburg disasters of 1930 and 1937 respectively, and the advances in airplane technology during WW2 essentially put an end to rigid airship development.
Ignoring airplanes, do you think rigid airships could compete with ocean liners in the long run? Other than speed, they weren't capable of transporting nearly as many passengers and were far less luxurious than a ship would be at the time.
As a side note, I wanted to ask, whether there were any other airships besides Graf Zeppelin andHindenburg that crossed the Atlantic as passenger vessels?
P.S. I just realized I posted this in Great Debates, when I meant for it to be under History. Mods feel free to move it.
Clearly, the economic forces decided this question nearly 90 years ago.
It is a bit more complicated than that as there was a third option. Airships are in a sense were the first powered aircraft and rigid Airships predate the blimp and as well as the plane. It was becoming outdated technology by the time of the Hindenburg. Airships in Germany ushered in the first regularly scheduled passenger air transports before WWI and during WWI bombed London. They even were the first type of Aircraft to go around the world non stop! Airships had the advantage of range over planes but planes were faster. However, airplane technology was improving. In the 1930ies planes were a viable form of transportation with some limitations. Also, Germany really was the only country to safely and practically operate airships in a passenger service.
By the time of Hindenburg (1937), you could fly across the Pacific using seaplanes (1934) and Atlantic service was just a few years from starting (1939). The reason for the lack of transatlantic sea plane service is two fold, the U.K. would not allow a foreign carrier (Pan AM) to land in the U.K without it’s own transatlantic seaplane service. There were also more countries that needed to be negotiated with as opposed to the Pacific Route that used territories of the United States. An airship could simply use it's range to skip this problem in the Atlantic and there were plans for Airships capable of the Pacific.
Using a sea plane, to get from L.A. to Manilla (where you would board a boat to Hong Kong), you made overnight stops in Hawaii, Midway island, Wake, and Guam. At these stops the passengers would spend the night at a hotel\resort and then board a plane for the next hop. This trip took about 6 days but cut weeks off vs. an ocean linear. The reason why seaplanes were used was because of lack of runways, a sea plane can use the same harbor facilities as a boat. The sea plane would also refuel at theses stops with the fuel being shipped in by boat.
The Atlantic trip departed from Baltimore, stopped in Horta, Lisbon and finally Marseilles, France. Later that same year (1939) service to the U.K. departing from New York was started with stops in New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Foynes, Ireland to South Hampton. This route took two days but offered more stops(where you could pick up and depart more passengers\cargo) than Hindenburg's three day non stop flight from Germany. From France you could board a train or take a plane to Germany and from the U.K. you could fly to Germany in hours.
Seaplanes are both faster and need less personal to operate making them more economical than Airships(the only reason why the route took 2 days was due to limited range). The outbreak of WWII as well as the disaster(airships had crashed and caught fire before but that was the first time it had been caught on film and broadcasted live on radio) was what doomed the airships. They offered no advantage of cost vs. Sea Plane or Ocean liner nor speed vs. sea plane. Round trip on Hindenburg was $700 vs. $675 for the sea plane.
WWII improvements in Airplanes (faster and longer range) and more runways around the world made seaplanes obsolete for crossing oceans and over time even the Ocean liner would not be able to compete with the plane.
Almost all of the rigid airships were lost to bad weather incidents. Not enough safety even for military use, although rumors circulate that the special forces have lighter than air systems for infiltration missions.
In WII and until the 50ies blimps(as opposed to airships) were used by the U.S. Navy for Search and rescue, spotting targets for ship's Guns, and anti submarine patrols. Improvements in technology and other aircraft(helicopters) took on these roles. The blimp's ballon could be deflated for storage on a ship and it could stay up in the air almost stationary in an area for hours.
Well airships planned to compete with ocean liners. The mast on the Empire State Building, now used for communications, was originally built as a docking device for trans Atlantic airships. The only problem was that cross winds blowing across Manhattan made exiting and entering perilous to say the least. Large passenger carrying airships are so fragile to the elements that they are impractical and downright dangerous.
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Do you think rigid airships were a viable competitor to ocean liners?
