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The problem is that people who die cannot be brought back to life whereas jobs that are lost can be found again. Many of our deaths have been people in their seventies who were off enjoying themselves, travelling or on a cruise and not waiting to die in a nursing home. At what age do we decide that life is dispensable?
I think that if you reopen too soon, people are still fearful and reopening will not necessarily be a success. Our state is getting less than ten new infections a day yet I have friends who still do not want to venture too far. The virus is just so contagious.
But it is all unchartered territory and no one really knows the best path. New Zealand had a full shutdown and we have had a partial shutdown. But the figures per capita look pretty similar at this stage and it will be interesting to compare the economic recoveries.
And then? Move to Las Vegas? Move to Phoenix or Tucson, where the stores/restaurants may open with very few customers? The fearful are not going to change their stubborn ways until there's a vaccine.
There may never be a vaccine. Or at least not one effective enough to end the virus deaths. Look the flu with a vaccine kills tens of thousands every year.
Why leave Los Angeles?
Cost of living is much lower first of all. And opened businesses are better than closed ones. I think many are waiting to see if there is a big spike from all the people out and about. Look how many news stories and politicians are saying that will happen. If that fails to occur more will venture out.
Plus if you can work from home and be anywhere. It makes sense to move.
The problem is that people who die cannot be brought back to life whereas jobs that are lost can be found again. Many of our deaths have been people in their seventies who were off enjoying themselves, travelling or on a cruise and not waiting to die in a nursing home. At what age do we decide that life is dispensable?
Its up to individuals to decide what their risk tolerance is. Some people ride motorcycles. Many others would never do that and feel its too dangerous. And since this virus effects older people much more, most of those folks get a pension and do no have to leave their homes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna
I think that if you reopen too soon, people are still fearful and reopening will not necessarily be a success. Our state is getting less than ten new infections a day yet I have friends who still do not want to venture too far. The virus is just so contagious.
I am in a town of 10,000 in a US state that has reopened. Most people seem to be back to normal. The restaurants are full, or at least as full as they can be. The streets are filled up with a normal amount of cars. Except for seeing people wearing masks you would never know a pandemic was going on. I am sure that there are shell-shocked people still staying home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna
But it is all unchartered territory and no one really knows the best path. New Zealand had a full shutdown and we have had a partial shutdown. But the figures per capita look pretty similar at this stage and it will be interesting to compare the economic recoveries.
True. If anything we might learn from this how best to deal with it and not over or under react if more waves happen down the road.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 05-15-2020 at 07:42 AM..
No other California counties will follow. Los Angeles County did this because they have the highest cases in the state. Therefore, it's understandable, but at the same time, a terrible decision as the rest of the country is re-opening again despite the number of cases still increasing by the 10,000s every day.
And then? Move to Las Vegas? Move to Phoenix or Tucson, where the stores/restaurants may open with very few customers? The fearful are not going to change their stubborn ways until there's a vaccine.
Oh please no. Us Las Vegans can't take any more of the Cali transplant syndrome. Our state is quickly going to hell in a hand basket thanks to the California libs.
Three more months....millionaires will be middle class by then.
The shutdown is being politicized. Newsom is basically trying to twist a Trumps arm to give California money to cover some of the losses. If trump does Newsom says see I got the money. If he doesn’t then it’s See Trump doesn’t care.
Three more months....millionaires will be middle class by then.
The shutdown is being politicized. Newsom is basically trying to twist a Trumps arm to give California money to cover some of the losses. If trump does Newsom says see I got the money. If he doesn’t then it’s See Trump doesn’t care.
The perils of winner take all and single party rule. With California's 55 Electoral College votes not being in play and written off since President Reagan means "Trump doesn't care about us" is irrelevant.
However California being so large means that as California falls the national numbers will fall with it. The question is do those voters that really count, in the swing states fall in line with bailing out California or believe in saving the money for their localities? In the end while hearing the bad national numbers day after day as the press players get increasingly fearful as vote by mail ballots go out.
WOW! These blue cities are really trying to out do China when it comes to being authoritarian.
"These blue cities"? The shelter in place order has nothing to do with "blue cities." Los Angeles County has the highest death rate in California from COVID-19 (which your link does not show).
I think it is safe to say that Consumer Confidence is as low as it has ever been in most of our lifetimes. People don't get over a shock like this quickly. It will be till we have a vaccine PLUS two years (if ever) till our economy recovers. We've toasted any chance of people feeling safe to carry on in the manner to which. Only brain-dead, far right, anarchist fools run around without masks, exhibiting no respect for a virus that has killed more Americans than a 9/11 every day for a week.
Opening up without a vaccine, without effective PPE is unwise. Staying shut down for much longer will kill more than opening up will. We are truly between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe so, and you make good points, but your error in logic is acting like we could just all be killed at any moment by this virus just like terrorists ramming a plane into a building. That’s not reality. Anyone who is under 50 and healthy, especially under 40 and healthy, knows with 99.99% certainly this isn’t going to kill them. In fact most wont even know they had this “deadly” virus. There is some weird Christian / religious thing going on when it comes to talking about the death totals. It’s like you cannot get past the emotional / spiritual response to them. The second anyone says, look, it is NOT the same when an 85-year-old with 17 health issues dies of a virus and an 18-year-old dies in Vietnam, someone has to rush in to tell us “all lives are precious! What if that was your dad?! Or your grandpa?!” What if?! That doesn’t make facts not facts. It’s not as sad when someone who has lived a long life dies as when someone young dies. Of course you care more if it’s YOUR relative versus a random person but that’s again ignoring rationalities and embracing emotionalism and that doesn’t work with logical argumentation. Either we are talking logically or emotionally here and I’m not interested in debating anyone’s emotions personally.
Old people die. It’s what happens. People with many health issues die. It’s just reality. Do I wish that weren’t so?! Heck yeah! I’ve spent hundreds of hours researching and supporting a number of causes including Aubrey de Grey’s that look to cure aging one day. Google (Alphabet) has a large bio lab working on that. More than 15 labs worldwide now are working on cures for aging. I do believe we’ll get there eventually. But we aren’t there now, so until we are, no it’s not the same when the average age of virus death in Italy is 80.1 and 9/11 killed 3,000 random people. This virus kills the old and the weak, welcome to nature - it’s cruel but fair. It doesn’t kill hardly anyone who is healthy. So if you’re that scared of going outside and you’re a healthy person, that’s a psychological issue not one based on data or science.
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Move to Phoenix or Tucson, where the stores/restaurants may open with very few customers? The fearful are not going to change their stubborn ways until there's a vaccine.
