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It'll be more interesting to see if infection cases start rising in cities that re-open.
Keep watch on Florida for one place. Entering Phase 2 now with reopening (whatever that entails exactly). Universal Studios in Central FL partially reopened with many rules, and Disney is following. Northeast FL beaches reopened about a month ago. Restaurants are open, and today gyms, hair salons, and more retail shops have been allowed to open. In Jacksonville I would say, from what I've seen, that half wear masks and half don't.
Maybe so, and you make good points, but your error in logic is acting like we could just all be killed at any moment by this virus just like terrorists ramming a plane into a building. That’s not reality. Anyone who is under 50 and healthy, especially under 40 and healthy, knows with 99.99% certainly this isn’t going to kill them. In fact most wont even know they had this “deadly” virus. There is some weird Christian / religious thing going on when it comes to talking about the death totals. It’s like you cannot get past the emotional / spiritual response to them. The second anyone says, look, it is NOT the same when an 85-year-old with 17 health issues dies of a virus and an 18-year-old dies in Vietnam, someone has to rush in to tell us “all lives are precious! What if that was your dad?! Or your grandpa?!” What if?! That doesn’t make facts not facts. It’s not as sad when someone who has lived a long life dies as when someone young dies. Of course you care more if it’s YOUR relative versus a random person but that’s again ignoring rationalities and embracing emotionalism and that doesn’t work with logical argumentation. Either we are talking logically or emotionally here and I’m not interested in debating anyone’s emotions personally.
I agree. No one wants their own or anyone else's elderly relatives to die, but the emotional approach people are taking with this virus is bizarre. It's as though they believe the only thing killing old people and sick people is this virus. That if we can defeat it, the elderly and weak will live forever. And they are totally ignoring all the zillions of other ways people can and do die every day, and always have, and also ignoring that the death of a person who has lived a long and full life is not the same as the death of a young person.
But I have to disagree that the emotional response to covid death totals is a Christian or religious thing. It's actually the opposite. The Christian people I have talked to on this subject, who are many, are in the vast majority not afraid of the virus and not afraid of dying. Their worldview precludes the fear of death and encourages an acceptance of death as an inevitable passage to the next life. That doesn't mean they want themselves or their loved ones to die any time soon, but on the whole they are perplexed by, for instance, a focus on keeping elderly, compromised people alive as long as possible at the expense of all else, including the elderly's own quality of life and the future of society.
It seems to be the nonreligious who believe this life is all anyone will ever have, who respond with "even a single person dying of coronavirus is too many."
I agree. No one wants their own or anyone else's elderly relatives to die, but the emotional approach people are taking with this virus is bizarre. It's as though they believe the only thing killing old people and sick people is this virus. That if we can defeat it, the elderly and weak will live forever. And they are totally ignoring all the zillions of other ways people can and do die every day, and always have, and also ignoring that the death of a person who has lived a long and full life is not the same as the death of a young person.
But I have to disagree that the emotional response to covid death totals is a Christian or religious thing. It's actually the opposite. The Christian people I have talked to on this subject, who are many, are in the vast majority not afraid of the virus and not afraid of dying. Their worldview precludes the fear of death and encourages an acceptance of death as an inevitable passage to the next life. That doesn't mean they want themselves or their loved ones to die any time soon, but on the whole they are perplexed by, for instance, a focus on keeping elderly, compromised people alive as long as possible at the expense of all else, including the elderly's own quality of life and the future of society.
It seems to be the nonreligious who believe this life is all anyone will ever have, who respond with "even a single person dying of coronavirus is too many."
Yeah, I have no idea I was just throwing that out there because even on this forum it seems like some people think exactly what you said - if we stop the virus, the elderly will never die. Yet a lot of people dying of this wouldn’t have made it out of the year let alone much longer. Some were even in hospice! So it seems like some moral argument that “all people are equal,” but nobody is disputing that all life is valuable and people are equal. They’re just trying to emphasize that it’s part of the (unfortunately) natural process that elderly people become weak and die easier. If this virus was killing, say, even 2% of 20-40 year olds affected, I would be absolutely terrified! That’s crazy. That would mean 5 people from my high school class would die, or almost surely someone I know. But it’s not doing much to young people, and even less to under 18.
I’m non-religious for the record. My relatives where I live are very Christian, one has spent his entire life working in ministry, and yeah they’re stubborn and don’t care about being told what to do. They are worse than me - I defend the constitutional principles involved and I’m a “letter of the law” guy, it’s just how I am. But practically speaking there shouldn’t be any rage about my views - I’ve left the house and stepped out of the car just twice since late March. Both quick shopping trips. I avoided being anywhere close to people except the cashier. My relatives are planning trips and can’t wait to go back to church lol it’s insane to me and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t find the virus to be too scary *for me* but for them, I wouldn’t do that. They’re acting like they’re 25 not 65-72.
There's debate among the experts on whether or not a vaccine will even be developed!
Businesses and lives have already been ruined.
90,000 lives in this country have already been permanently ended by this disease. That's with social distancing and other measures designed to prevent the spread of coronavirus.
Yeah, let's "open everything up". The morgues will be so overflowing with bodies they won't know what to do with them.
Of course, the cities are slow to end the lockdown. Where do you think coronavirus spreads quickest? Hint: Its not out in the Badlands of North Dakota.
I thank the Lord everyday that people like you did not prevail when these decisions were made. We'd be looking at hundreds of thousands more deaths (including many more healthy people) if you had your way.
Go on spouting this kind of nonsense. Most of us see it for what it is.
90,000 lives in this country have already been permanently ended by this disease. That's with social distancing and other measures designed to prevent the spread of coronavirus.
Yeah, let's "open everything up". The morgues will be so overflowing with bodies they won't know what to do with them.
Of course, the cities are slow to end the lockdown. Where do you think coronavirus spreads quickest? Hint: Its not out in the Badlands of North Dakota.
I thank the Lord everyday that people like you did not prevail when these decisions were made. We'd be looking at hundreds of thousands more deaths (including many more healthy people) if you had your way.
Go on spouting this kind of nonsense. Most of us see it for what it is.
Only a very few people are arguing that nothing should ever have been locked down. It was necessary at the beginning, in order to slow everything down and get a better idea of what this virus was doing, who it was affecting and how to treat them, etc.
That's obviously different from keeping everything locked down until a vaccine makes the virus go away, which is a hypothetical best-case scenario. I think most people agree that there should be a balance between that and immediately "opening everything up," and that we know enough now to manage that in such a way that the hospitals are not overwhelmed and the morgue is not overflowing with bodies.
By the way, the reason more people are not swayed by the "many healthy people are dying" argument is that it doesn't seem to be true. There are always outliers. In fact, even in the oldest and most vulnerable group (the 75+), about 90% survive.
These are statistics from my county: of the confirmed cases who are age 75 and up, 49 out of 494, or 10%, have died. Of the cases who are age 34 and under, 2 out of 1369, or 0.1%, have died. The virus is, if I'm correct (I'm notoriously bad at statistics), at least 100 times more dangerous for the elderly than for the young. Probably much more, as more elderly show symptoms and thus are likely to be tested, than the young.
Yes, as people get older they get increasingly more susceptible and prone to acquiring underlying health conditions. But where should we put our energy? Into doing our best to protect the elderly and compromised while allowing the young to thrive, or into forcing everyone, regardless of age and condition, into a semi-eternal lockdown?
It’s really a shame that certain leaders made the decisions that allowed 40% of the US deaths to occur in nursing homes and LT care facilities. Kudos to these geniuses.
Not to mention that over 50k deaths are in NY, NY, MA, and MI with 3 of these 4 states having authoritarian leaders. Don’t know much about the MA Governor and don’t care to research it. Seems like that leadership is working out really well for those states. But, let’s shut down the entire country because certain leaders missed the most important people at risk. Were you able to see this for what it is?
The issue is that many of these infections happened at the beginning when states were getting only a few hundred tests daily. Nursing homes and long-term care facilities were testing one person instead of everyone, and NOT testing workers, because they did not have the tests. Are they supposed to make tests out of thin air? Ideally LTC facilities should have been testing workers daily from the start and testing all residents once the first started to show symptoms, but that could not and did not happen, because it is not possible when a state has 300 tests to use a day and some facilities alone have over 100 residents plus the workers who come there. With tons of facilities around the state, what is to be done?
Good question. I apologize for not providing the link to that info. Now I can't find that link. However, I have provided links below to several articles which seem to support a number perhaps a bit lower than 60%. If we took an average of the different numbers, it might be roughly 50% or a little mor
Your NPR like only says the majority of people dying in nursing homes are of color. The Baltimore link does not work. The Newsweek link does not work and the Mercury news like is on a different subject.
I did find this: Yale professor describes as ‘staggering’ research that reveals more than half of all deaths in 14 US states from elderly care facilities
Its interesting this is rarely brought up. I did read somewhere that people over 85 account for more deaths than all the people under 85. A large amount of those are in assisted living I would assume. So if we had just from day one put all assisted living places in strict quarantine would have halved all deaths or more.
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