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People are losing their jibs because they made a comment 30 years ago. We all say or do something stupid can you imagine if they used it against you and it caused you to lose your job. People change over time, their opinions, feelings, etc. what was acceptable 30 years ago isnt acceptable today. But at that time it was, it needs to be kept in the context of the time not applied to todays standards.
I think 'cancel culture' is inhuman and totalitarian by its very nature. It reminds me of Stalinism (and I grew up under communist rule). If you 'cancel' a person you are denying them their humanity, you're creating a vilified 'other' that is easy to dismiss, easy to destroy. The most reliable way of cancelling someone is killing them. That's the natural end point of that train of thought.
At the moment, many younger 'liberal' people think it's 'cool' because it only seems to go against 'bad people' with bad ideas, bad values etc., but they forget that in this current climate it can only be a matter of months or a few years before your own views are deemed 'antiquated' and in requirement of 'cancellation'.
Look at someone like JK Rowling, long a celebrated icon of the liberal Left, now she's basically lucky that she's already made enough money to be somewhat sheltered from the impact, but I'm sure the hostility and shunning she encounters from people previously friendly to her is difficult to handle regardless. Now imagine a regular woman without millions in the bank being subjected to that negativity..they'd be finished.
They always talk about how it's OK because no-one's sent to prison. Well for one in the UK they actually can imprison you for 'thought crime', but also the whole idea of 'cancelling' you is to do maximum damage to you as a person short of imprisonment. If you have that much vitriol and malice against a person for their beliefs, then you will almost certainly push for their views to be criminalized and for them to be sent into prisons (or camps?) eventually.
I think 'cancel culture' is inhuman and totalitarian by its very nature. It reminds me of Stalinism (and I grew up under communist rule). If you 'cancel' a person you are denying them their humanity, you're creating a vilified 'other' that is easy to dismiss, easy to destroy. The most reliable way of cancelling someone is killing them. That's the natural end point of that train of thought.
At the moment, many younger 'liberal' people think it's 'cool' because it only seems to go against 'bad people' with bad ideas, bad values etc., but they forget that in this current climate it can only be a matter of months or a few years before your own views are deemed 'antiquated' and in requirement of 'cancellation'.
Look at someone like JK Rowling, long a celebrated icon of the liberal Left, now she's basically lucky that she's already made enough money to be somewhat sheltered from the impact, but I'm sure the hostility and shunning she encounters from people previously friendly to her is difficult to handle regardless. Now imagine a regular woman without millions in the bank being subjected to that negativity..they'd be finished.
They always talk about how it's OK because no-one's sent to prison. Well for one in the UK they actually can imprison you for 'thought crime', but also the whole idea of 'cancelling' you is to do maximum damage to you as a person short of imprisonment. If you have that much vitriol and malice against a person for their beliefs, then you will almost certainly push for their views to be criminalized and for them to be sent into prisons (or camps?) eventually.
Oh, look, it's the DARVO pattern.
Deny
Accuse
Reverse Victim & Offender
So essentially those who act like social bullies, whether that is racism or invalidation of any other person or persons, are going to lose followers and fans. Indeed, if their profession depends on money from a fanbase, like JK Rowling, and you alienate them by expressing that you do not recognize the validity of human being that they (your recent "fans") are friends with, or family to, or are themselves... They have every right to stop giving you money, to tell their friends, and to do whatever they can to see your support wither.
She could have kept her anti-trans thoughts to herself, but she did not.
Those who agree with her are free to continue to support her.
And arguing against, "Cancel Culture"... Please describe to me the alternative you wish to see?
I am forced to give my hard earned money to anybody who wants it, no matter what I think of them? You are arguing that she's got some kind of ENTITLEMENT to my support? Or anyone's?
What about that racist uncle (fictitious) that I unfriended on Facebook? OMG CANCEL CULTURE! Because in addition to his god-given right to be an a-hole, I am required to see and hear it? I don't think so. No one has an entitlement to be on MY social media if they are being annoying to me in any way. That's what the button is for.
Each of us absolutely has EVERY right to socially shun or avoid or not support or not listen to anyone we see fit. As for employment, I don't know about others here, but the company I work for had me sign an employment contract and agree to the terms in a handbook, and among the things that ~I agreed~ could cost me my job, is in any way tarnishing the company image or misrepresenting its values, including in content on my social media. Most of the scenarios where racists and others have been doxxed and lost their jobs, they probably signed an agreement with their employer that they would not do pretty much exactly what they were caught doing.
This goes so far beyond freedom of speech. It is demanding freedom from the consequences of your words and actions, that was never guaranteed to you or anyone. Not in the Constitution, not anywhere.
As for cops going to jail as someone mentioned upthread here.... If you are accused of a crime, that is normally what should happen. I see no reason whatsoever that the uniform of law enforcement should exempt one from obligation to obey the law, or from accountability if they do not. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what all of ~this~ *gestures vaguely at American cities right now* is about. I don't personally believe that having a badge gives anyone a right to steal, assault, rape or kill with impunity, or that it should. If they are innocent, let them establish that in a trial as judged by a jury of citizens like the rest of us.
Near as I can see, the opposition to "cancel culture" is "troll culture"---spoiled entitled jerks throwing fits for being called on their own actions and behaviors, like a 12 year old banned from a game or a forum for having a potty mouth. Well how dare they.
So essentially those who act like social bullies, whether that is racism or invalidation of any other person or persons, are going to lose followers and fans. Indeed, if their profession depends on money from a fanbase, like JK Rowling, and you alienate them by expressing that you do not recognize the validity of human being that they (your recent "fans") are friends with, or family to, or are themselves... They have every right to stop giving you money, to tell their friends, and to do whatever they can to see your support wither.
She could have kept her anti-trans thoughts to herself, but she did not.
Those who agree with her are free to continue to support her.
And arguing against, "Cancel Culture"... Please describe to me the alternative you wish to see?
I am forced to give my hard earned money to anybody who wants it, no matter what I think of them? You are arguing that she's got some kind of ENTITLEMENT to my support? Or anyone's?
What about that racist uncle (fictitious) that I unfriended on Facebook? OMG CANCEL CULTURE! Because in addition to his god-given right to be an a-hole, I am required to see and hear it? I don't think so. No one has an entitlement to be on MY social media if they are being annoying to me in any way. That's what the button is for.
Each of us absolutely has EVERY right to socially shun or avoid or not support or not listen to anyone we see fit. As for employment, I don't know about others here, but the company I work for had me sign an employment contract and agree to the terms in a handbook, and among the things that ~I agreed~ could cost me my job, is in any way tarnishing the company image or misrepresenting its values, including in content on my social media. Most of the scenarios where racists and others have been doxxed and lost their jobs, they probably signed an agreement with their employer that they would not do pretty much exactly what they were caught doing.
This goes so far beyond freedom of speech. It is demanding freedom from the consequences of your words and actions, that was never guaranteed to you or anyone. Not in the Constitution, not anywhere.
As for cops going to jail as someone mentioned upthread here.... If you are accused of a crime, that is normally what should happen. I see no reason whatsoever that the uniform of law enforcement should exempt one from obligation to obey the law, or from accountability if they do not. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what all of ~this~ *gestures vaguely at American cities right now* is about. I don't personally believe that having a badge gives anyone a right to steal, assault, rape or kill with impunity, or that it should. If they are innocent, let them establish that in a trial as judged by a jury of citizens like the rest of us.
Near as I can see, the opposition to "cancel culture" is "troll culture"---spoiled entitled jerks throwing fits for being called on their own actions and behaviors, like a 12 year old banned from a game or a forum for having a potty mouth. Well how dare they.
You are entitled to support who you want to support. I won't force you to buy JK Rowling's books - in fact I never have bought any of them. I personally do not consume media from people I deem objectionable unless I deem their talents great enough to overlook such transgressions which certainly does not apply to most hacks I find objectionable.
But I also just let them be, I do not participate in online campaigns to convince sponsors or employers to take action against them, I do not wade through 10 years of online user history to find statements that could be used against them. I do not try to incite a storm of outrage among my fellow travelers against them. The spirit behind those activities is pernicious and poison for any open society as it's driven by the mentality that strives to deny 'offensive' opinions and views any outlet.
Also hilarious the reference to employment contracts...when Colin Kaepernick was 'trolling' with his controversial views on his company's time - mind you, they didn't care what he said on Twitter or other social media - were you cool with the NFL fining him on account of those expressions of his views possibly damaging the NFL's business?
So essentially those who act like social bullies, whether that is racism or invalidation of any other person or persons, are going to lose followers and fans. Indeed, if their profession depends on money from a fanbase, like JK Rowling, and you alienate them by expressing that you do not recognize the validity of human being that they (your recent "fans") are friends with, or family to, or are themselves... They have every right to stop giving you money, to tell their friends, and to do whatever they can to see your support wither.
She could have kept her anti-trans thoughts to herself, but she did not.
Those who agree with her are free to continue to support her.
And arguing against, "Cancel Culture"... Please describe to me the alternative you wish to see?
I am forced to give my hard earned money to anybody who wants it, no matter what I think of them? You are arguing that she's got some kind of ENTITLEMENT to my support? Or anyone's?
What about that racist uncle (fictitious) that I unfriended on Facebook? OMG CANCEL CULTURE! Because in addition to his god-given right to be an a-hole, I am required to see and hear it? I don't think so. No one has an entitlement to be on MY social media if they are being annoying to me in any way. That's what the button is for.
Each of us absolutely has EVERY right to socially shun or avoid or not support or not listen to anyone we see fit. As for employment, I don't know about others here, but the company I work for had me sign an employment contract and agree to the terms in a handbook, and among the things that ~I agreed~ could cost me my job, is in any way tarnishing the company image or misrepresenting its values, including in content on my social media. Most of the scenarios where racists and others have been doxxed and lost their jobs, they probably signed an agreement with their employer that they would not do pretty much exactly what they were caught doing.
This goes so far beyond freedom of speech. It is demanding freedom from the consequences of your words and actions, that was never guaranteed to you or anyone. Not in the Constitution, not anywhere.
As for cops going to jail as someone mentioned upthread here.... If you are accused of a crime, that is normally what should happen. I see no reason whatsoever that the uniform of law enforcement should exempt one from obligation to obey the law, or from accountability if they do not. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what all of ~this~ *gestures vaguely at American cities right now* is about. I don't personally believe that having a badge gives anyone a right to steal, assault, rape or kill with impunity, or that it should. If they are innocent, let them establish that in a trial as judged by a jury of citizens like the rest of us.
Near as I can see, the opposition to "cancel culture" is "troll culture"---spoiled entitled jerks throwing fits for being called on their own actions and behaviors, like a 12 year old banned from a game or a forum for having a potty mouth. Well how dare they.
Here’s the problem with canceling a relative you disagree with, you’re missing an opportunity for education. I’m 51. I’ve had relatives so racist that I got dirty looks and a stern talking to after they saw me with my arm around a black girl while dancing the Cotton-eyed Joe. Without disrespecting them I listened to what they had to say and carefully selected questions to ask them. I didn’t change their minds at that moment. I learned about them from what they had to say and their answers to my questions. My questions were to put a crack in the window of their mind. The most rabidly racist of the group proudly announced he voted for Obama both presidential elections. He’s also the proud grandfather of a mixed race baby born from his only daughter. Does he still hold racist thoughts, yep. But he is better than he once was. He is the product of the culture and era in which he was raised. I can disagree with a person without hating that person. There are some people who e done things I personally believe is unforgivable. But I’m not organizing a boycott of those people. Individuals should be free to acts as they wish. But with social media and the sheep that follow them this outrage and canceling is greatly magnified to ridiculous levels. I can hate what a person said without wanting that persons entire career to be forever ruined.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,464,896 times
Reputation: 12187
Having been raised in a hyper fundamentalist version of Christianity I am struck by the similarities between the Religious Right and Woke Liberals.
- Anyone with a different opinion - even a moderate opinion - must have bad intentions and a bad heart
- The ideal women is sexless and not desired by men
- Both are obsessed with disproven End of Times scenarios. "Change now as we tell you or the world will end".
- No sense of humor, no ability to look at themselves and laugh
- Both have a knack for indoctrinating children, needlessly feeling their lives with fear.
Here’s the problem with canceling a relative you disagree with, you’re missing an opportunity for education. I’m 51. I’ve had relatives so racist that I got dirty looks and a stern talking to after they saw me with my arm around a black girl while dancing the Cotton-eyed Joe. Without disrespecting them I listened to what they had to say and carefully selected questions to ask them. I didn’t change their minds at that moment. I learned about them from what they had to say and their answers to my questions. My questions were to put a crack in the window of their mind. The most rabidly racist of the group proudly announced he voted for Obama both presidential elections. He’s also the proud grandfather of a mixed race baby born from his only daughter. Does he still hold racist thoughts, yep. But he is better than he once was. He is the product of the culture and era in which he was raised. I can disagree with a person without hating that person. There are some people who e done things I personally believe is unforgivable. But I’m not organizing a boycott of those people. Individuals should be free to acts as they wish. But with social media and the sheep that follow them this outrage and canceling is greatly magnified to ridiculous levels. I can hate what a person said without wanting that persons entire career to be forever ruined.
They are reducing a person's worth to that 'objectionable opinion' or statement and justify any action taken on account of that. It doesn't matter if a person lived a good life, has been a charitable man, a loving father or a highly competent, productive employee..all that matters is "he or she said that! unbelievable, what a worthless p.o.s.!"
I remember that the sheer anger and malice always struck me when I came across one of Keith Olbermann's diatribes back in the day. Now I actually agreed with his views about 50% of the time, but the tone and wording always rubbed me the wrong way. It reminded me of the way the Nazis talked about their opponents, a mix of mockery, anger and total contempt. Everyone was 'worthless' 'trash' etc. and it really set the tone for the way things have gone since then.
And I know those defenses of "ah they should just keep their mouths shut, it's the right of their employers to fire them, it's the right of their audience to broadcast how much they dislike them now." are dishonest because when it's their own views that are given that treatment they find it highly objectionable. Turns out that no-one likes the idea that speaking their mind on issues could constitute professional and social suicide.
Status:
"81 Years, NOT 91 Felonies"
(set 24 days ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,596,781 times
Reputation: 5696
Nope, cancel culture comes from society finally waking up to the idea that it's wrong to bully others (hurt, harm, or demean their dignity outside the scope of reasonable self-defense, retaliation, or punishment). I'm sorry that you're upset that certain high profile people are being called out for inexcusable degradation of others way back some time, but they were 18 years old at the time - and so I'm not gonna lose any sleep over jerks and bigots getting their comeuppance.
I agree that 'Cancel Culture' is a lot like religious belief, and there is a retributive glee in enforcing the Discipline and Punishment upon the nonBelievers.
I leave you with the famous quote from Mark Twain:
“Let us consider that we are all partially insane.
It will explain us to each other, it will unriddle many riddles, it will make clear and simple many things which are involved in haunting and harassing difficulties and obscurities now.
That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unbiased Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters. When a thoughtful and unbiased Mohammedan examines the Westminster Catechism, he knows that beyond any question I am spiritually insane. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic -- for that is part of his insanity and the evidence of it. He cannot prove to me that I am insane, for my mind has the same defect that afflicts his. All democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the republicans and mugwumps know it. All the republicans are insane, but only thee democrats and mugwumps can perceive it.
The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane"
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