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Sounds like good definition of a capitalist economy. Reagan and Clinton broke lot of the chains the wise people from Great Depression put on the beast. Cause recent generations thought it could never happen again and they were so much smarter than previous generations..... How do they say, those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it???
Our problem is we have become a country of borrowers when we used to be a country of savers. All this credit and borrowing has not made the average person's life any better but it has made those at the top very very rich. We need to get rid of or greatly curtail the credit economy. It inflates asset values and keeps the majority of Americans just a few paychecks away from financial ruin. So when things go sour too many people need help just to survive.
Our problem is we have become a country of borrowers when we used to be a country of savers. All this credit and borrowing has not made the average person's life any better but it has made those at the top very very rich. We need to get rid of or greatly curtail the credit economy. It inflates asset values and keeps the majority of Americans just a few paychecks away from financial ruin. So when things go sour too many people need help just to survive.
Quite right. And, to add a tidbit. Have you noticed all of these fabulously expensive retirement centers? Many of those people went through the Great Depression and WWII. When all that was over, the economy picked up, they got good jobs and, having learned a thing or two, pinched their pennies. Now look where they are. Some of us were not that lucky but, when I see so many very rich and comfortable places, I can't help but think how many did make it. Surely they had learned something from he 30s and 40s?
However, wouldn’t allowing the entire world and economy to crash (from the Covid)be the right thing to do from correcting society? Sending out the stimulus check, is that not just prolonging the inevitable?
The American dream should find a way....
"Letting the economy crash" would mean - wait for it - the economy wouldn't crash.
It is what you perceive as "not letting the economy crash" that is - wait for it - going to cause the economy to crash.
Rand Paul should be on Mount Rushmore. He seems to be the only person in Washington or elsewhere who understands the dynamics of what is taking place. The long-term consequences of the short-term fixes ("not letting the economy crash") are going to be devastating.
I am 110% convinced that, while covid may be a fairly serious illness I'd just as soon avoid, Covid Hysteria is a manufactured crisis in furtherance of a hidden (but pretty obvious) agenda with devastating long-term consequences.
However, wouldn’t allowing the entire world and economy to crash (from the Covid)be the right thing to do from correcting society? Sending out the stimulus check, is that not just prolonging the inevitable?
The American dream should find a way....
So, you feel that allowing the world economy to crash including that of the United States, would "correct society"?
I'm confused. A world wide depression would increase human suffering by several orders of magnitude. Those hardest hit would be the folks living in poorest nations where people are already struggling with serious existential problems like a lack of medical care and food shortages so severe that famine stalks the land. As always, children will be hit the hardest and they will die in heartbreaking numbers. How does this benefit ANY society?
When it comes to the US, many Americans are barely hanging on by their fingernails as it is. The news is full of images of people lined up for miles outside local food banks, and food insecurity is rampant. People desperately want to work but there are no jobs for them.
More than 18 million people have lost work since February, when the pandemic began.
Adding in those who were already out of work or underemployed before the pandemic began, the total number of people who are either not working or working less than they would like to be is over 31 million. https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/...yed-right-now/
If nothing is done to extend unemployment benefits and help both renters facing eviction and landlords who depend on the money they get from their properties for their income, then their will be thousands of Americans facing eviction out onto the streets during the coldest month of the year and in the middle of a raging pandemic. Some of those who will be newly homeless don't even have access to health care since they lack medical insurance. What a nightmare! And how will so many living a desperate life on the streets help improve society?
Does OP believe that they will be a better person if they are forced to go hungry and live on the streets for some unspecified length of time - maybe even forever? Extreme poverty does not improve character. If anything, suffering causes people to become extremely self centered and the values they once held dear become no more than a prescription for a life spent as a sucker.
Are these actually the sorts of things you want to happen, OP? Please clarify.
Letting the economy crash doesn't correct anything.
The best policy is to tell people who are in fear to mask up and let things roll-on as normal.
wearing a mask does more to protect other people than it protects the person wearing it
Unless mask wearing is mandatory, too many people don't care about their family, friends and neighbors for people with risk factors to let things roll on as normal
Some of us prefer not to risk death just because others think hundreds of thousands of excess deaths don't matter
So, you feel that allowing the world economy to crash including that of the United States, would "correct society"?
I'm confused. A world wide depression would increase human suffering by several orders of magnitude. Those hardest hit would be the folks living in poorest nations where people are already struggling with serious existential problems like a lack of medical care and food shortages so severe that famine stalks the land. As always, children will be hit the hardest and they will die in heartbreaking numbers. How does this benefit ANY society?
When it comes to the US, many Americans are barely hanging on by their fingernails as it is. The news is full of images of people lined up for miles outside local food banks, and food insecurity is rampant. People desperately want to work but there are no jobs for them.
More than 18 million people have lost work since February, when the pandemic began.
Adding in those who were already out of work or underemployed before the pandemic began, the total number of people who are either not working or working less than they would like to be is over 31 million. https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/...yed-right-now/
If nothing is done to extend unemployment benefits and help both renters facing eviction and landlords who depend on the money they get from their properties for their income, then their will be thousands of Americans facing eviction out onto the streets during the coldest month of the year and in the middle of a raging pandemic. Some of those who will be newly homeless don't even have access to health care since they lack medical insurance. What a nightmare! And how will so many living a desperate life on the streets help improve society?
Does OP believe that they will be a better person if they are forced to go hungry and live on the streets for some unspecified length of time - maybe even forever? Extreme poverty does not improve character. If anything, suffering causes people to become extremely self centered and the values they once held dear become no more than a prescription for a life spent as a sucker.
Are these actually the sorts of things you want to happen, OP? Please clarify.
Thanks for the response.
I just was trying to emphasize that by proping up the economy with a check for those who can’t survive.....it is just prolonging the inevitable that there will one day come a time where there will be no stimulus check. I can’t remember but in the 80s I don’t remember there being a bail out for those who couldn’t make it...
When I say “correcting society”. I was trying to debate that the way people live their lives today...with such expensive housing and sky high debt...might in fact change the way people live. Such extreme difference between the wealthy and those who need the stimulus might somehow correct.
I just was trying to emphasize that by proping up the economy with a check for those who can’t survive.....it is just prolonging the inevitable that there will one day come a time where there will be no stimulus check. I can’t remember but in the 80s I don’t remember there being a bail out for those who couldn’t make it...
When I say “correcting society”. I was trying to debate that the way people live their lives today...with such expensive housing and sky high debt...might in fact change the way people live. Such extreme difference between the wealthy and those who need the stimulus might somehow correct.
Your point is well-made, White Widow. I wonder if, perhaps, the problem lies in the topic: The Economy. So very many of us - myself included - simply do not grasp "Economics" very well. It is almost harder to understand than Physics. So, in desperation, we lean on the small part we do understand and build from there. The kind of economic practice that "I" as an individual observed and then later lived or witnessed will create my attitudes and beliefs - both of which are rather narrow. When we get into the larger picture, it is beyond us. So...a question. Does one's own experience somehow dilute the bigger picture of The Economy. Is "The Economy" too large to deal with individual opinions?
Letting entire economy crash has nothing to do with COVID. It simply came along handy or, was presented as such, to cover already going crash that became inevitable. Since 2008. What we have now is final tsunami. Forces, that brought up that crash, don't really want to go to jail hence, "it is not us, it is virus" tune.
Word out is about complete system reboot what, in its turn, will come with "crash". Dollar, as the world currency, will be dismantled. New currency zones will be established. Digital currency will be implemented instead of fiat one. Currency is, likely, to be switched to Chinese classic two stage one. Precious metals will be returned to their value.
Current political struggle in the US is representation of that fight - global financial elite wants to keep it as is, not to lose their current, though decaying, powers and profits. National elites want to restore national independence and might. If globalists win, crash will be avalanche type. If national elites win, it will be slow, approximately 2 year long, recession with eventual uptick.
Quite right. And, to add a tidbit. Have you noticed all of these fabulously expensive retirement centers? Many of those people went through the Great Depression and WWII. When all that was over, the economy picked up, they got good jobs and, having learned a thing or two, pinched their pennies. Now look where they are. Some of us were not that lucky but, when I see so many very rich and comfortable places, I can't help but think how many did make it. Surely they had learned something from he 30s and 40s?
Housing appreciation has a lot to do with it. My parents bought their California home in the early 70's for about 30K. Average track home built in the early 50's with 1500 square feet. They sold it in the early 90's for $200K. Zillow has it valued at a million dollars today. So part of it is good timing with home ownership. There are lots of people with good home appreciation who can sell and pay for a really nice retirement home. And for what they did to happen today the same house would have to appreciate to $30 million dollars in the next 45 years. I don't see that happening unless massive hyper inflation kicks in. And rising interest rates to counter hyper inflation would probably crash real estate and other inflated assets.
We have squeezed all the benefits out of low interest rates as far as they can go. The only place to go now is up on rates.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 12-25-2020 at 11:45 AM..
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