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I hope our Federal and state leaders find a way to get more people a better education.
I get the exact opposite from all this.
I hope our leaders find a way help more working class people get a job. Any stumblebum can go to 2-year community college for $2-4k per year. Then they can add years 3 and 4 at a low-level state university for around $7,000 a year. OK. Then what? Where do they work? What job do they get?
Excerpt: "Tectonic changes are reshaping U.S. workplaces as the economy moves deeper into the knowledge-focused age. These changes are affecting the very nature of jobs by rewarding social, communications and analytical skills. They are prodding many workers to think about lifetime commitments to retraining and upgrading their skills. And they may be prompting a society-wide reckoning about where those constantly evolving skills should be learned – and what the role of colleges should be. The number of workers in occupations requiring average to above-average education, training and experience increased from 49 million in 1980 to 83 million in 2015, or by 68%. This was more than double the 31% increase over the same period in employment, from 50 million to 65 million, in jobs requiring below-average education, training and experience."
It's very long and comprehensive study by Pew . . .
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I hope our leaders find a way help more working class people get a job. Any stumblebum can go to 2-year community college for $2-4k per year. Then they can add years 3 and 4 at a low-level state university for around $7,000 a year. OK. Then what? Where do they work? What job do they get?
I’m not sure why going to a CC and a “low-level” state university is necessarily going to give someone less opportunities than going to some other school. All college is what you make of it, and it is up to the student to decide where to go after s/he gets the degree. The issue with working class people is that $2-4K may be out of reach, and that $7k undergrad is even more out of reach.
There are a lot of career-based programs at community college. Far better to go to CC to become a dental hygienist, optician, LPN/RN etc than to pay one of those for-profit career programs much more to do the same thing.
Ideally, the community college will also help students gain the higher tech skills they need to be successful in today’s economy. Even “working class people” need tech skills these days. Gone are the days when people can find tons of unskilled manufacturing/factory jobs. The current versions require a lot higher skill level to operate more advanced machinery.
Although many career oriented employees accept jobs that don't require a college education it can certainly separate you from those who don't have one when it's time for promotions.
I’m not sure why going to a CC and a “low-level” state university is necessarily going to give someone less opportunities than going to some other school. All college is what you make of it, and it is up to the student to decide where to go after s/he gets the degree. The issue with working class people is that $2-4K may be out of reach, and that $7k undergrad is even more out of reach.
There are a lot of career-based programs at community college. Far better to go to CC to become a dental hygienist, optician, LPN/RN etc than to pay one of those for-profit career programs much more to do the same thing.
Ideally, the community college will also help students gain the higher tech skills they need to be successful in today’s economy. Even “working class people” need tech skills these days. Gone are the days when people can find tons of unskilled manufacturing/factory jobs. The current versions require a lot higher skill level to operate more advanced machinery.
I know quite a few commerce/business/econs degree holders ended up in retail sale and changing tires.
It could be peer pressure or even their parents, who wanted their kids to get an academic degree.
To become a dental hygienist, most go to a CC, but one can also go to a University for a Dental Hygiene Degree. The difference is the pay scale. https://www.dentistry.ubc.ca/dental-...egree-program/
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994
I get the exact opposite from all this.
I hope our leaders find a way help more working class people get a job. Any stumblebum can go to 2-year community college for $2-4k per year. Then they can add years 3 and 4 at a low-level state university for around $7,000 a year. OK. Then what? Where do they work? What job do they get?
Precisely, and very common in USA where there is NO career exploration prior to choosing EDU path.
So many times it is the WRONG path. (lack of interest / jobs / inability to perform...) The 'tuition machine' just grinds out the revenue and those educated best be able to cope! (only 25% of USA engineer and science grads stay in their fields for over 5 yrs)
All of the international programs I worked with aligned skillsets, + country economic and development objectives. Students were REQUIRED to be hired / sponsored into employement in their field (2 yrs prior to graduation) or they didn't graduate! When they graduated... they knew your company, your software, your tools, your expectations. They could actually CONTRIBUTE!!! day one.
There is not even a hint that USA academic achievement will place a person in a position they are capable or interested in. Employment, wage earning, social and economic contribution is far more determined by the person, not in their 'proof' (?) of completion of course-work.
I know NO ONE who is employable who is 'lost' / disadvantaged due to not having opportunities (of school or jobs), but I know a LOT of college graduates who are not employable. They come through the door everyday.
A college degree doesn't guarantee a high standard of living. At best, it just demonstrates an ability to achieve a goal and an ability to learn. No skill set learned by graduation day is sufficient to last an entire career.
I am finishing my final gig in engineering this week. I started learning about electronics in 1958 at age 9. I earned two electrical engineering degrees by age 25 but that was just a start. I've continued learning my entire life. I'm now 71.
I think the key is to find your groove. Discover what you really enjoy doing. That may not even require college. If you like it, get better and better at it. Become the one they call for whatever you do best.
Expect to be continually learning and adapting for your entire life.
I’m not sure why going to a CC and a “low-level” state university is necessarily going to give someone less opportunities than going to some other school. All college is what you make of it, and it is up to the student to decide where to go after s/he gets the degree. The issue with working class people is that $2-4K may be out of reach, and that $7k undergrad is even more out of reach.
It's not out of reach at all. Federal Stafford loans are available for $5,500 the first year, $6,500 the second year, and $7,500 in years 3 and 4. I am trying to make the point that anyone who wants to go to college in America can go to college in America. I do not believe in dragging people kicking and screaming into college.
Quote:
There are a lot of career-based programs at community college. Far better to go to CC to become a dental hygienist, optician, LPN/RN etc than to pay one of those for-profit career programs much more to do the same thing.
Yes, that's for people who want to study those things and do those jobs.
Quote:
Ideally, the community college will also help students gain the higher tech skills they need to be successful in today’s economy. Even “working class people” need tech skills these days. Gone are the days when people can find tons of unskilled manufacturing/factory jobs. The current versions require a lot higher skill level to operate more advanced machinery.
That's my point. Why are those days gone in America but they're not gone in China and the third world? Why have we even exported strategically important, skilled jobs like pharmaceutical manufacturing to China? Why only in 2021 after a worldwide shortage of semiconductors that has caused a disruption of U.S. manufacturing, are we beginning to talk about breaking ground on 7-10 new domestic semiconductor plants? My only concern with those new semiconductor plants is, when they are up and running will they hire American college graduates or H1B holders?
That's my point. Why are those days gone in America but they're not gone in China and the third world? Why have we even exported strategically important, skilled jobs like pharmaceutical manufacturing to China? Why only in 2021 after a worldwide shortage of semiconductors that has caused a disruption of U.S. manufacturing, are we beginning to talk about breaking ground on 7-10 new domestic semiconductor plants? My only concern with those new semiconductor plants is, when they are up and running will they hire American college graduates or H1B holders?
The only reason they're viable in places like China is that their labor laws allow for people to work for much less. Americans aren't going to take potentially dangerous manufacturing jobs for non-living wages. The days of a guy going out and getting a US manufacturing job and supporting a family with it is are gone because the cost to support a family in the US is an order of magnitude more than the cost to support a family in many parts of China. Even some of the higher skilled manufacturing jobs can be outsourced for pennies on the dollar compared to 1st world nations. As bad as income inequality is in the US now, it's far, far worse in places like China.
I'm not blaming unions, but the effect they had on raising the standard for US workers ultimately meant that places where no such standards exist would ultimately attract those jobs because they can produce the same product for less as technology advanced to the point that oceans were no longer barriers to cost. It's a variant of Gresham's Law for labor, if you will.
The only reason they're viable in places like China is that their labor laws allow for people to work for much less. Americans aren't going to take potentially dangerous manufacturing jobs for non-living wages.
This is why I've been saying all along that we need a political solution to the problem, since a Libertarian economic solution that's favorable to America clearly is not in the cards.
Alright I'm going to bow out of the conversation once again because I'll burn up all my free time on this one topic if I let it. I only dove back in because I saw the OP had responded after a long absence!
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