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I'm not disputing this but to save me researching myself could you summarize why it is easier for women in Israel to be working mothers than it is so in the US? Or how the climbing birth rate allows women to completely integrated or have a life.
Is it egalitarian marriages, flexible work hours, affordable daycare?
I’m not sure there is much connection as my post dealt with the large disparity in birth rates among various groups in Israel. All of this can be found in more detail online.
I’m not sure there is much connection as my post dealt with the large disparity in birth rates among various groups in Israel. All of this can be found in more detail online.
I was directing that to Listener who seems to imply that while here in the US many women seem to have to choose between having children or more children and having a career or life outside of motherhood and that contributes to the declining birth rate, while in Israel it does not seem to be the case as the birth rate is climbing while women enjoy being fully emersed in society. I'm am wondering if that is so what contributes to their ability to do so.
I was directing that to Listener who seems to imply that while here in the US many women seem to have to choose between having children or more children and having a career or life outside of motherhood and that contributes to the declining birth rate, while in Israel it does not seem to be the case as the birth rate is climbing while women enjoy being fully emersed in society. I'm am wondering if that is so what contributes to their ability to do so.
This could be part of it:
In Israel, a woman who was employed for at least 12 months by the same employer or in the same workplace (even if the employer has changed) is entitled to 26 weeks of maternity leave, divided into 15 weeks of paid leave and 11 weeks of unpaid leave.
And this:
State-regulated daycare services in Israel are intended for children aged 3 months to 3 years. They are operated by non-profit organizations under government supervision and subsidized by the state. Parents contribute a monthly sum determined by their income, usually around NIS 1,000 to 2,000 ($290-580).
In Israel, a woman who was employed for at least 12 months by the same employer or in the same workplace (even if the employer has changed) is entitled to 26 weeks of maternity leave, divided into 15 weeks of paid leave and 11 weeks of unpaid leave.
And this:
State-regulated daycare services in Israel are intended for children aged 3 months to 3 years. They are operated by non-profit organizations under government supervision and subsidized by the state. Parents contribute a monthly sum determined by their income, usually around NIS 1,000 to 2,000 ($290-580).
Thanks, that was what I was wondering.
Having kids today would scare the crap out of me. When I had mine and still today most women dont get any paid maternity leave and forget being home for 12 months. I took 6 weeks with mine. Two weeks built up sick and personal days and 4 weeks unpaid. At least I had family to help with child care and daycare was not outrageous.
I was directing that to Listener who seems to imply that while here in the US many women seem to have to choose between having children or more children and having a career or life outside of motherhood and that contributes to the declining birth rate, while in Israel it does not seem to be the case as the birth rate is climbing while women enjoy being fully emersed in society. I'm am wondering if that is so what contributes to their ability to do so.
Its a cultural attitude that values having more children, partially in response to the Jewish loss of life experienced during the Holocaust. According to what I read, the higher birth rate applies to all parts of society, regardless of wealth or how religious they are. Although the leave and maternity policies of Israel are also very generous in supporting families and children, other countries with similar leave and maternity policies do not approach the birth rate of Israel. The countries surrounding Israel share similar high birth rates, though I do not know what the economic and social policies of those countries are.
Until the last decade, LDS communities also had a much higher birthrate than the US average due to cultural attitudes, but has sharply fallen closer to the US average.
Last edited by RocketSci; 03-29-2023 at 02:35 PM..
Its a cultural attitude that values having more children, partially in response to the Jewish loss of life experienced during the Holocaust. According to what I read, the higher birth rate applies to all parts of society, regardless of wealth or how religious they are. Although the leave and maternity policies of Israel are also very generous in supporting families and children, other countries with similar leave and maternity policies do not approach the birth rate of Israel. The countries surrounding Israel share similar high birth rates, though I do not know what the economic and social policies of those countries are.
Until the last decade, LDS communities also had a much higher birthrate than the US average due to cultural attitudes, but has sharply fallen closer to the US average.
I would have thought that in Israel the more secular ladies were more in the workplace while the ultra-Orthodox ladies would be the ones with very high birth rates.
Now on the LDS statement, I had not noticed this trend to smaller families. Do you have a link? Was there a policy change such as comes out of their HQ in Salt Lake from time to time?
I would have thought that in Israel the more secular ladies were more in the workplace while the ultra-Orthodox ladies would be the ones with very high birth rates.
Now on the LDS statement, I had not noticed this trend to smaller families. Do you have a link? Was there a policy change such as comes out of their HQ in Salt Lake from time to time?
I was directing that to Listener who seems to imply that while here in the US many women seem to have to choose between having children or more children and having a career or life outside of motherhood and that contributes to the declining birth rate, while in Israel it does not seem to be the case as the birth rate is climbing while women enjoy being fully emersed in society. I'm am wondering if that is so what contributes to their ability to do so.
Oh.
That was actually covered in the video The Depopulation Bomb.
Go down about 2/3rd through the transcript until you find the paragraph that begins, Nicholas Eberstadt: When I started trying to understand population trends, a couple of generations ago, I wrote a study with a dear friend of mine about Israel, and we were more or less, entirely wrong about this. We argued back in the late 1970s that Israel was going to have to release the West Bank and Gaza for demographic reasons, because.....
He goes on to discuss the Arab world and Israeli world and how TFR fits in.
My own takeaway is in the case of the Jewry, religion has not come under fire and is not being abandoned. That was one of the three root causes for decreasing TFR as found by Bricker and Ibittson, who wrote Empty Planet. Empty Planet, I think, was one of the most important books written about population trends.
... Any way they say, the first part of solving a problem is recognizing there is one. Not seeing it coming people may get blindsided by the change. The world isn't ending, but it will change and the way people do things will, also change. It's going to be different, that's all. And change is slow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307
... My position - and it's based on attempts in South Korea, Singapore, Sweden and Russia - is that the problem cannot be solved through government action or incentives. I have good company in that opinion. Nicholas Eberstadt, of American Enterprise Institute in his video "The Depopulation Bomb" is of the same view:
It's a video worth seeing where the interviewer gives an honest attempt to understand the subject matter instead of eliciting a response he wants.
The transcript is also available. That works better for some people.
Ah, I meant recognizing the problem and economically address the issue of blight. In other words, see the change and address the change. Governments trying to change a culture, never works. Well, not without a fight anyway ...
Just to be clear, I'm thinking of, like the scarcely populated neighborhoods with homes that have no occupants. Street lights that are out, because the bills that can't get paid; school teachers who will need a new career. Situations of that nature, plus more. I was watching one of Joe Rogan's shows on YouTube, during COVID where he remarked about how the forest animals in California were coming out onto the highways, because of the lack of cars. And also, the cleaner air ... but also the rats in the alley ways ... yuk.
Declining populations --- If they wait until they see it slap 'em in the face, then they will have probably waited too long for recovery mode to kick in; transition will be a longer process. However, change is slow, so hopefully the decline in population will be slow enough, that people will see the signs soon enough to act on it.
............Declining populations --- If they wait until they see it slap 'em in the face, then they will have probably waited too long for recovery mode to kick in; transition will be a longer process. However, change is slow, so hopefully the decline in population will be slow enough, that people will see the signs soon enough to act on it.
You know what occurs to me sometimes?.....
I wonder if we will see an "Expansion of The Stupids". Sounds cold, but here's my thinking:
In the first 80,000 years stupid people simply did not live long. They died for natural reasons and died sooner than others because they could not fend for themselves and could not develop the problem solving skills needed.
Then technology extended all lives. Stupid people lived in air conditioned homes and received the same health care as the rest of the population. They still die early, usually from their own actions, but not so early that they do not reproduce. In fact, because they are stupid, those people have children early and often. Intelligent people are busy planning their lives while stupid people are doing whatever nature compels them to do.
In 2017, the birth rate was highest among families that made less than $10,000 per year. It was lowest for those making more than $200,000. See for yourself.
Some of this is explained by acknowledging that young new families will make less than older families. But the chart still points the finger....
We're getting dumber. For the first time in human history we are moving backward.
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