Is a Return to Colonialism Needed - Afghanistan and Haiti Events Sure Make it Seem So (independent, September 11)
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I don't know why there seems to be an article of faith that some country somehow in some way will ever change the Afghan people into a cohesive nation.
I think that's a good observation. And, maybe it's better for the rest of the world if they're not. Although that is to the detriment of their own people.
I don't know why there seems to be an article of faith that some country somehow in some way will ever change the Afghan people into a cohesive nation.
No probably no country can change them into a nation. They have to want it themselves and so far apparently they prefer to have allegiance to their clans, tribes, local warlords etc.
My point was, Taliban are the temporary winners, but they will not rule Afghan. They'll just appear to rule until a tougher gang comes along and unseats them.
I think that's a good observation. And, maybe it's better for the rest of the world if they're not. Although that is to the detriment of their own people.
I would agree. I would not want to live in Afghanistan, but if people do want to live that way, then they should have their own place to do it. Much better than making it a bad America and then people with no real choice start flooding to the better America.
Instead, we should look to fixing our immigration policies so if people decide they don't want to live in Afghanistan, they have a viable alternative.
Hopefully we can no have our final curtain call on nation-building. Who knows...it might just be the only way to actually win the war on terror.
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The trends are actually very promising for the 3rd World eliminating extreme poverty and overpopulation. Extreme poverty - like $2 a day kind - is on pace to be eliminated in a couple decades even without a concerted effort to do so. Global fertility rates are falling everywhere including Africa. TFR is now around 3 in Ethiopia and Kenya which is a great level to not over population yet maintain a young workforce to attract more development. Latin America TFR is mostly around 2 and no more than 4 in Central American which will greatly reduce crime and attempted illegal immigration into the USA in coming decades. A lot of the current bump in border issues is due to COVID issues which will soon go away.
The trends are actually very promising for the 3rd World eliminating extreme poverty and overpopulation. Extreme poverty - like $2 a day kind - is on pace to be eliminated in a couple decades even without a concerted effort to do so. Global fertility rates are falling everywhere including Africa. TFR is now around 3 in Ethiopia and Kenya which is a great level to not over population yet maintain a young workforce to attract more development. Latin America TFR is mostly around 2 and no more than 4 in Central American which will greatly reduce crime and attempted illegal immigration into the USA in coming decades. A lot of the current bump in border issues is due to COVID issues which will soon go away.
Let's see...how can I make this not a one liner?
Basic point: Wanna bet?
I've never been to a true third world county, but I have spent extensive time in Thailand, and some time in Burma, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. With the exception of Singapore, I cannot imagine the really poor people in those other countries being lifted out of poverty. In the streets of Bangkok alone I frequently saw leprosy, people with no arms or legs scooting around on wood with wheels begging for water and food, and many things like that...and that was in the capital, let alone upcountry villages. And again, Thailand is not a third world country.
I've never been to a true third world county, but I have spent extensive time in Thailand, and some time in Burma, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. With the exception of Singapore, I cannot imagine the really poor people in those other countries being lifted out of poverty. In the streets of Bangkok alone I frequently saw leprosy, people with no arms or legs scooting around on wood with wheels begging for water and food, and many things like that...and that was in the capital, let alone upcountry villages. And again, Thailand is not a third world country.
It wasn't that difficult, and your resulting post was surely worth the effort.
And, so that I may not be guilty, myself, of a one-liner... I think that it's difficult for Americans to realize the depths of poverty that exist elsewhere in the world. Even our poorest state -- Mississippi -- cannot compare with what you have seen in these places you mentioned. Nevertheless, I think that things may still be improving throughout the world. Nations see how we live in the U.S. thanks to global media, and they can't help but want to emulate what they see when it comes to societal comforts. Only the most repressive nations that forbid their citizens access to the Internet (such as Taliban-controlled areas of the Middle East) are likely to remain in a medieval state of existence for a much longer time.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 10-14-2021 at 07:42 PM..
It wasn't that difficult, and your resulting post was surely worth the effort.
And, so that I may not be guilty, myself, of a one-liner... I think that it's difficult for Americans to realize the depths of poverty that exist elsewhere in the world. Even our poorest state -- Mississippi -- cannot compare with what you have seen in these places you mentioned. Nevertheless, I think that things may still be improving throughout the world. Nations see how we live in the U.S. thanks to global media, and they can't help but want to emulate what they see when it comes to societal comforts. Only the most repressive nations that forbid their citizens access to the Internet (such as Taliban-controlled areas of the Middle East) are likely to remain in a medieval state of existence for a much longer time.
True story: Thais often love talking with Americans. And in Thailand I always followed my rule to talk with anyone unless there was an ulterior motive on their part. One day a fellow who seemed reasonably intelligent wanted me to answer quite a few questions about America. One of his questions was -- and he was clearly not joking -- "In America, are the streets paved with gold?"
I think you're very right about the restriction of the internet by some leaders of some countries. And I agree that slowly things will probably improve in most places in the world. But I think the other poster seems to have no concept of what endemic poverty really is. And this is not the first time in my 72 years on the planet that I have heard optimistic predictions about ending poverty. And when I hear those predictions I think of the street/homeless people right here in the United States -- the ones I see living under bridges here in Arizona where the temperature sometimes reaches 120, or the homeless in D.C. living outdoors all winter long where the temperature often dipped well below freezing.
I think the most hopeful thing I ever saw happen...to me...was when I was living just outside of D.C. One winter evening I went to one of the old and small, early indoor shopping malls, and a man came up to me and begged for money to get a motel room because that night the temperature was going to dip to near zero; he happened to be Asian. I usually will only give money to the homeless through organized charities, because I've seen too many homeless given money who then go and buy booze. But this particular time I just couldn't ignore the possibility of this man freezing to death. So I gave him $40. Over 2 months later I was back at that mall and going up the central escalator, and a man I didn't recognize was going down the escalator. He looked at me and said, "Wait for me at the top of the escalator". I wasn't worried because the mall's security office happened to be right there, so I waited out of curiosity. When he got to me he said (paraphrased): "Remember me. You gave me $40 for a motel the night it was so cold". He reached in his pocked and pulled out $40 and handed it to me. "A few days after that I got a job and so I can pay you back". It was heartwarming. But that was just one man, and the problem of homeless in this richest country in the world seems unsolvable, and in fact maybe growing.
I feel that if some countries want to do internal things that don't directly affect the US, so be it. If the Taliban just had to knock on the door of Kabul to be let back in, then best wishes to them all. For many years in our past, we have had trade relations with countries that were not like us and unless there was aggression, things worked out fine. We don't need to go back to colonialism, just don't see the need to continually try to buy false friends everywhere we go.
I feel that if some countries want to do internal things that don't directly affect the US, so be it. If the Taliban just had to knock on the door of Kabul to be let back in, then best wishes to them all. For many years in our past, we have had trade relations with countries that were not like us and unless there was aggression, things worked out fine. We don't need to go back to colonialism, just don't see the need to continually try to buy false friends everywhere we go.
The problem is if we don't give the leaders money there are bleats of a "humanitarian crisis." Of course none of the aid gets to the people, but it sure feels good.
The last thing we need to to is go back to "Colonialism", especially as far as Haiti and Afghanistan are concerned. Let Haiti sort out its own mess. There is no solution there and we should know already that infusing billions of dollars will not change much. Afghanistan? We went there based on 9-11 issues and thought as long as we were there, we could enlighten the populace so that they never went back to the old ways....but guess what?? If the extremely well equipped and trained Afghan Army didn't even think it was important to fight off the Taliban without us being there to remind them they should, then maybe they never really wanted to in the first place. We make the mistake thinking that just because we don't like a certain group, that every person in the country thinks the same way. Maybe someday, the US, Soviets, and Brits can get together and swap war stories, but for now, it is best that part of our history is done. Lets spend the money here, helping Americans instead.
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