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Yes, you are misinformed. Like I said, the average American being shot or killed by a gun...the chances are very, very, very low. You can post biased links all you want. Sure I could go get myself shot I suppose if I went very seriously looking for trouble but that's a part of the Second anyway which you don't understand lol.
And yes, I think you're jealous as a country it's not just you. Please enlighten me on these "restrictions" and answer my question. Can I go get a .357 magnum at a store 10 minutes away and keep it in my car in England? Please tell me about the handgun "restrictions" over there.
So I decided to look into gun laws in England myself:
When applying for a firearm certificate, justification must be provided to the police for each firearm, and they are individually listed on the certificate by type, calibre, and serial number. A shotgun certificate similarly lists type, calibre and serial number, but permits possession of as many shotguns as can be safely accommodated. To gain permission for a new firearm, a "variation" must be sought, for a fee, unless the variation is made at the time of renewal, or unless it constitutes a one-for-one replacement of an existing firearm that will be disposed of. The certificate also sets out, by calibre, the maximum quantities of ammunition someone may possess at any one time, and is used to record ammunition purchases (except where ammunition is bought to use immediately on a range under s11 or s15 of the Firearms Act).
To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be satisfied that a person has "good reason" to own each firearm, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, Firearm Certificates are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership. Since 1968, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a firearm.[43] The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiable good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where firearms will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a licence be issued, which must be renewed every 5 years.
So I have to prove to the cops that I have "good reason" to even begin the process of acquiring a firearm? Hahaha, whew America is a great country. You all are barely even free, if at all. Here, in this free country the police have to have probable cause to even approach and talk to you.
Nope. As we've been provided with a link to the South Down Gub Club, I might as well quote from that site:
Quote:
UK law defines a ‘pistol’ as a firearm with a barrel shorter than 30 cm (12 in) or a total length of less than 60 cm (24 in). In terms of a pistol, only muzzle-loading pistols are legal. All other types of pistol are prohibited in Britain {.....}
So that covers my modest .38 Special as well. Here in Arkansas and in close-by Missouri I can keep that in the home, the car, or carry it around with me either openly or concealed, if I wanted to. In the U.K. it would be illegal merely to have it in my possession in the home.
The definition of firearms is also very wide-ranging in Britain. Again, as our poster in England has provided the link, I'll quote from that site again, extracting one particular clause:
Quote:
No matter the intended purpose of the guns listed below, they are all considered illegal and possession could lead to lengthy prison sentences. The following guns are totally prohibited by UK Law:
{.....}
Any firearm which is designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid gas of other substance. This normally refers to stun guns, electric shock devices, tear gas, pepper spray, all of which are classified Section 5 Firearms
So, as my wife was astonished to discover when I told her, it's illegal in Britain even to carry a canister of Mace around for protection.
Nope. As we've been provided with a link to the South Down Gub Club, I might as well quote from that site:
So that covers my modest .38 Special as well. Here in Arkansas and in close-by Missouri I can keep that in the home, the car, or carry it around with me either openly or concealed, if I wanted to. In the U.K. it would be illegal merely to have it in my possession in the home.
We've always had a castle doctrine (for you Brits that means you legally can use lethal force if someone steps to you on your property to do you harm, and that extends to vehicles as well). Tennessee just passed open and concealed carry, I love it. You used to have to take an 8 course to conceal and carry which I would still encourage...but just...freedom. However I don't carry a gun, just a neutral preference. I would in certain situations. However guns are all over my house and in my cars...lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBC-1966
o, as my wife was astonished to discover when I told her, it's illegal in Britain even to carry a canister of Mace around for protection.
You've got to be kidding. But then again over there you can be sanctioned for calling someone a poo-poo face or derogatory word. I don't condone people being jerks, but that is absolutely RIDICULOUS.
Yes, you are misinformed. Like I said, the average American being shot or killed by a gun...the chances are very, very, very low.
It looks as though we cross-posted there, but as I just said and you just found with a search, the U.K. government doesn't consider self-defense a good enough reason for wanting a firearm (even though the English Bill of Rights specifically acknowledged the common law right of such). And just about all pistols are completely banned, except for historical muzzle-loading types. So no .357 Magnum for you and no .38 Special for me in Britain.
Yes, that would be common sense. But you must know that such common sense hasn't been an integral part of some police thinking in Britain for years. There have been numerous cases of homeowners being arrested for defending themselves against an intruder.
But it's that second part that's the problem - "So long as you follow the licensing laws," and those laws are extremely restrictive, as I pointed out earlier about my ex-neighbor keeping a shotgun.
I've told you, you can legally protect your property and your family, you can do it using force as well, I could hit a guy with my cricket bat, I could tie him up BUT if I tie him up and THEN proceed to batter him with my cricket bat then I will be in trouble - common sense really.
In what way are the gun laws 'restrictive'? Because I can't go out with my 'gang' and shoot a few other gang members from other gangs?
Yes, you are misinformed. Like I said, the average American being shot or killed by a gun...the chances are very, very, very low. You can post biased links all you want. Sure I could go get myself shot I suppose if I went very seriously looking for trouble but that's a part of the Second anyway which you don't understand lol.
And yes, I think you're jealous as a country it's not just you. Please enlighten me on these "restrictions" and answer my question. Can I go get a .357 magnum at a store 10 minutes away and keep it in my car in England? Please tell me about the handgun "restrictions" over there.
Your chances of being killed by a gun in the US is not half as much as in the UK, its not twice as much as in the UK, its not TEN times as much as in the UK, its not even a HUNDRED times as much, its about SIX HUNDRED TIMES AS MUCH!!, I would call that 'pretty high!' Perhaps you can tell me exactly why we would be 'jealous' of those kind of shameful numbers!? We don't need these for our school kids!
If only! The situation in Britain has become so crazy over the years that I think it's hard for most people here in the U.S. to grasp just how the system has been twisted around.
One more example: Suppose you keep a tire lever or jack handle beside the seat in your car or truck, just because you have to venture into a bad area and feel that you need at least something for protection. If stopped by the police and questioned about why you have that lever or jack handle beside you, you'd better not say that it's for self-defense in case you're attacked. If you do, there's a very good chance of being arrested for the supposed crime of "being in possession of an offensive weapon." The fact that you have it only for defensive purposes will be ignored, and the perverted way of bureaucratic thinking is that you've admitted that if attacked by somebody you would use that item as a weapon for self-defense, therefore you are carrying an offensive weapon. I know - It's totally twisted and bizarre, but that's how it is.
I've told you, you can legally protect your property and your family, you can do it using force as well, I could hit a guy with my cricket bat, I could tie him up BUT if I tie him up and THEN proceed to batter him with my cricket bat then I will be in trouble - common sense really.
Yes, the law says that you may use "reasonable force" in order to protect yourself. But you must know that in practice the police in many cases have a much different idea of the limits of reasonable force than the average person.
Quote:
In what way are the gun laws 'restrictive'?
You're not permitted to own a firearm for self-defense. That's a major restriction.
So I decided to look into gun laws in England myself:
When applying for a firearm certificate, justification must be provided to the police for each firearm, and they are individually listed on the certificate by type, calibre, and serial number. A shotgun certificate similarly lists type, calibre and serial number, but permits possession of as many shotguns as can be safely accommodated. To gain permission for a new firearm, a "variation" must be sought, for a fee, unless the variation is made at the time of renewal, or unless it constitutes a one-for-one replacement of an existing firearm that will be disposed of. The certificate also sets out, by calibre, the maximum quantities of ammunition someone may possess at any one time, and is used to record ammunition purchases (except where ammunition is bought to use immediately on a range under s11 or s15 of the Firearms Act).
To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be satisfied that a person has "good reason" to own each firearm, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, Firearm Certificates are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership. Since 1968, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a firearm.[43] The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiable good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where firearms will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a licence be issued, which must be renewed every 5 years.
So I have to prove to the cops that I have "good reason" to even begin the process of acquiring a firearm? Hahaha, whew America is a great country. You all are barely even free, if at all. Here, in this free country the police have to have probable cause to even approach and talk to you.
Unlike people in the US I am 'free' to walk around in any city in the UK at any time of night without fear of wandering into the 'wrong part of town'!
As you can see below the reality is that I actually live in a country that has more 'freedoms' than the US:-
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 04-04-2022 at 10:12 PM..
Reason: Snarkiness is not acceptable in Great Debates. Please keep things civil.
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