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Ukrainians are fair-complexioned and western minded, while Afghans and Iraqis are middle eastern and NOT western minded. This means that Ukrainians are the “good guys” while Afghans and especially Iraqis were the “bad guys” who needed to be saved from themselves by western minded NATO coalitions who invaded their country and called it an “operation”.
Thousands of civilians were killed during “Operation” Enduring Freedom and “Operation” Iraqi Freedom, just like in this Russian “Operation” of the Ukraine. The US invaded a country who had nothing to do with 911 and instituted regime change, just like Russians are trying to do in the Ukraine right now. The US waved flags during the invasion of Iraq just like Russians are waving flags now. The US government saw their actions as just and morally right even though many civilians were killed or displaced, but keep in mind that these civilians weren’t white or western minded so they mattered very little.
Last edited by SerlingHitchcockJPeele; 03-21-2022 at 02:57 AM..
Ukrainians are fair-complexioned and western minded, while Afghans and Iraqis are middle eastern and NOT western minded. This means that Ukrainians are the “good guys” while Afghans and especially Iraqis were the “bad guys” who needed to be saved from themselves by western minded NATO coalitions who invaded their country and called it an “operation”.
Thousands of civilians were killed during “Operation” Enduring Freedom and “Operation” Iraqi Freedom, just like in this Russian “Operation” of the Ukraine. The US invaded a country who had nothing to do with 911 and instituted regime change, just like Russians are trying to do in the Ukraine right now. The US waved flags during the invasion of Iraq just like Russians are waving flags now. The US government saw their actions as just and morally right even though many civilians were killed or displaced, but keep in mind that these civilians weren’t white or western minded so they mattered very little.
True and Ukrainians are culturally Christian and has European values. Plus they are considered White people Afghans and Iraqis are culturally Muslim and have a culture that is not considered European or western. Plus they are not considered White.
The situations are not remotely similar. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were to rid those countries of brutal dictators that were sponsoring terrorists and to free their people. Every attempt to bring democratic institutions and rule of law into those countries was made. A fools errand it turned out but America's heart was in the right place. Plenty of sympathy and assistance ($$$) given to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, what do you think Americans have been doing there the last 20 years? They've been building infrastructure, hospitals and schools. Meanwhile, Ukraine has been minding its own business and trying to do those things on its own.
Yeah, don't worry about the tens of thousands of dead civilians. America's heart was in the right place, so it's all OK.
I guess as long as the Russians claim that their heart is in the right place, they'll be able to feel guilt-free about their army killing thousands of Ukrainian civilians.
Great system - just claim that you're the good guys and the guys you're bombing are the bad guys and then it doesn't matter how many people get killed along the way.
There is currently and outpouring of sympathy and outrage over the war in Ukraine. People are stumbling over their feet to help in some way. It is definitely a horrific situation and the people do need a lot of help. It's a good thing if it's provided.
However, Iraqi and Afghan civilians suffered the same for years yet few people expressed sympathy for them or outrage against those who started the wars. Why is that? Isn't it equally horrific when Iraqis are bombed, their family members dying, their homes destroyed and their safety so precarious that that they have to flee, suffering in the process? Was Bush a better guy than Putin when he invaded a sovereign country unprovoked?
Is the sympathy for Ukrainians because "they look like us"? Or could not showing pictures of the Iraqi civilians' suffering on TV have something to do with the lack of sympathy and outrage? Did people simply not know how ugly war is? Or is it because the war in Iraq was fought by our country?
I'd love to know what people think of this.
My parents were European immigrants. I've done my DNA at my heritage who is world wide, I have cousin matches in both Ukraine and Russia.
We should not get involved. It is between the 2 countries, it's stupid because it's over the boarder of a few states where Russians live that Ukraine doesn't want to give them to Russia even though Russia is the one who gives these citizens passports.
Civilians being killed is disgusting. Putin is especially vile because he has nukes he's threatening to use. I hear the Ukrainian president isn't much better then him and that they're both corrupt.
I personally would not go there to fight, hope none of my relative still in Europe will have to fight.
Horrible in this day and age to be so barbaric killing innocent people over borders.
I think that a lot of people in the US have family in Europe so this hits closer to home where their relatives could be killed too.
My parents were European immigrants. I've done my DNA at my heritage who is world wide, I have cousin matches in both Ukraine and Russia.
We should not get involved. It is between the 2 countries, it's stupid because it's over the boarder of a few states where Russians live that Ukraine doesn't want to give them to Russia even though Russia is the one who gives these citizens passports.
Civilians being killed is disgusting. Putin is especially vile because he has nukes he's threatening to use. I hear the Ukrainian president isn't much better then him and that they're both corrupt.
I personally would not go there to fight, hope none of my relative still in Europe will have to fight.
Horrible in this day and age to be so barbaric killing innocent people over borders.
I think that a lot of people in the US have family in Europe so this hits closer to home where their relatives could be killed too.
Understand your reluctance to go there to fight, after all who wants to be in a war? We had the same feelings when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. We tried to "stay out of it" right up until the time that Hitler had conquered most of Europe.
In many ways, Putin is a greater threat than Hitler, because Putin has an enormous nuclear, chemical and biological weapons inventory that he is not afraid to use. Hitler, even in extremis stopped short of deploying the sarin gas that he had at his disposal. Putin didn't bat an eyelash at using sarin gas against the civilians of Syria, and he won't hesitate this time around, if he thinks it is useful.
It is a fantasy to believe that Putin will stop with Ukraine. Once he has it under his boot, he will begin to look toward other former Soviet nations - a good guess is that the Balkans will be next on his list. During all of this Putin will continue to target the US and other Western countries with Russian disinformation/propaganda designed to weaken us from within, as well as with cyber-attacks against infrastructure and commerce.
Point is, we are already involved whether we like it or not. Let's not repeat the mistakes of WW2. It is time to get US manufacturing back up to speed and restock our weapons inventories. We need to prepare and deploy more troops into NATO countries and to position our naval and air forces for a war in Europe that is sure to come.
Reality is that we will need the best and brightest in our armed forces in the years to come. Young people need to be considering enlistment or to prepare for a military career.
Last edited by GearHeadDave; 03-21-2022 at 06:18 AM..
A seeming lack of public sympathy for the nation of Iraq may have much to do with Iraq's invasion of the much smaller but oil-rich country of Kuwait in 1990, thus triggering the Persian Gulf War. I remember that time, and the huge support for the beleaguered nation of Kuwait. People were tying yellow ribbons all over the place in support of Kuwait, as well as sending aid.
Similarly, a lack of public sympathy for the nation of Afghanistan may have much to do with the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the U.S., resulting in the destruction of NYC's World Trade Center and the loss of thousands of American lives, which led to U.S. retaliation against al-Qaeda and its leader Osama bin Laden, whom Afghanistan refused to extradite.
That doesn't mean that there has been no sympathy for the civilians of these nations who suffer for the actions of their leaders. Especially for women living under Taliban rule in Afghanistan, there has been a vast outpouring of support from Western countries, including the U.S.
Good points. The West supported the Kuwaitis, as well as the Kurds, the Mujahedeen and Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, and others despite that they "don't look like us".
The Vietnamese "Napalm Girl" certainly did not "look like us" yet the Pulitzer Prize winning image of her remains one of the most powerful antiwar images in the world.
I think the government and media decide who will get sympathy at the outset of a conflict, and indeed whether a conflict will even generate coverage and sympathy at all. The reasons for that are varied, such as whether an ally is involved, an area with oil or other resources, a diaspora with Western connections or a famous or articulate spokesperson, and so on.
How many have died in the past year in the Mexican Cartel War? How many in the Yemeni Civil War? How many in the Ethiopian Civil War? Did you even know about those wars? If not, why not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmed_conflicts
The people showing the most sympathy for Middle Eastern refugees are showing the least amount of sympathy for Eastern European refugees and vice versa. Reasons are probably cultural for many...some see refugee crises as opportunities to diversify populations so they are naturally more drawn towards refugees from cultures and races that differ from the majority of the host country. Others see such rapid demographic shifts as being disruptive and are more open to taking refugees from populations with similar cultures and races as the host.
Politics and propaganda. Our war was labeled "Iraqi Freedom", so 20 years and hundreds of thousands of casualties was just fine. People have short memories and are driven like mindless cattle. Russia and the US were equally wrong, invading and trying to take over another country under the guise of helping them fight tyranny. Russia is even using the same phony story of poison gas stockpiles that Bush used about WMDs in Iraq. But to quote Bob Dylan, "God is on our side".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita
There is currently and outpouring of sympathy and outrage over the war in Ukraine. People are stumbling over their feet to help in some way. It is definitely a horrific situation and the people do need a lot of help. It's a good thing if it's provided.
However, Iraqi and Afghan civilians suffered the same for years yet few people expressed sympathy for them or outrage against those who started the wars. Why is that? Isn't it equally horrific when Iraqis are bombed, their family members dying, their homes destroyed and their safety so precarious that that they have to flee, suffering in the process? Was Bush a better guy than Putin when he invaded a sovereign country unprovoked?
Is the sympathy for Ukrainians because "they look like us"? Or could not showing pictures of the Iraqi civilians' suffering on TV have something to do with the lack of sympathy and outrage? Did people simply not know how ugly war is? Or is it because the war in Iraq was fought by our country?
Understand your reluctance to go there to fight, after all who wants to be in a war? We had the same feelings when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. We tried to "stay out of it" right up until the time that Hitler had conquered most of Europe.
In many ways, Putin is a greater threat than Hitler, because Putin has an enormous nuclear, chemical and biological weapons inventory that he is not afraid to use. Hitler, even in extremis stopped short of deploying the sarin gas that he had at his disposal. Putin didn't bat an eyelash at using sarin gas against the civilians of Syria, and he won't hesitate this time around, if he thinks it is useful.
It is a fantasy to believe that Putin will stop with Ukraine. Once he has it under his boot, he will begin to look toward other former Soviet nations - a good guess is that the Balkans will be next on his list. During all of this Putin will continue to target the US and other Western countries with Russian disinformation/propaganda designed to weaken us from within, as well as with cyber-attacks against infrastructure and commerce.
Point is, we are already involved whether we like it or not. Let's not repeat the mistakes of WW2. It is time to get US manufacturing back up to speed and restock our weapons inventories. We need to prepare and deploy more troops into NATO countries and to position our naval and air forces for a war in Europe that is sure to come.
Reality is that we will need the best and brightest in our armed forces in the years to come. Young people need to be considering enlistment or to prepare for a military career.
Lets not pretend that we haven't been egging Russia/Putin with pushing NATO alliances more east towards Russian borders. Imagine if China made an alliance with Brazil then started making alliances with every South and Central American country then finally making an alliance with Mexico and having missiles pointing right at us. Likes not pretend we won't invade Mexico.
I'm not trying to defend Putin, the guy is no saint but we oughta just stay out of other peoples affairs for once. We can sit here and talk about Putin and his nukes but we gotta stop acting like we haven't been imperialist ourselves.
Good points. The West supported the Kuwaitis, as well as the Kurds, the Mujahedeen and Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, and others despite that they "don't look like us".
The Vietnamese "Napalm Girl" certainly did not "look like us" yet the Pulitzer Prize winning image of her remains one of the most powerful antiwar images in the world.
I think the government and media decide who will get sympathy at the outset of a conflict, and indeed whether a conflict will even generate coverage and sympathy at all. The reasons for that are varied, such as whether an ally is involved, an area with oil or other resources, a diaspora with Western connections or a famous or articulate spokesperson, and so on.
How many have died in the past year in the Mexican Cartel War? How many in the Yemeni Civil War? How many in the Ethiopian Civil War? Did you even know about those wars? If not, why not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmed_conflicts
I did know, though I agree with you that there are some Americans who probably avoid news about armed conflict throughout the world for various reasons of their own.
I especially remember the horrific images of civilians who had their hands and arms hacked off by the rebel army in the Sierra Leone Civil War. The rebel army committed many atrocities, such as abducting children from their families, with the boys forced to become soldiers and the girls forced into prostitution. There were many nations, including the United States, that were united in support of Sierra Leone's government against the rebel army.
"The media" can't decide anything -- newscasters, independent bloggers, and other online sources can only present information, and it's often up to individuals to inform themselves.
Some governments, such as Russia and China, will do their best to block information that they don't want their citizenry to know, but there are brave souls who still manage to find a way to hack systems and get information through.
The situation in Ukraine is different from some of these civil wars and drug wars fought around the globe, in that it is not merely a humanitarian issue. Putin's aggression against Ukraine has become an issue of international concern for the obvious reason (which has already been stated in this thread more than once) that it is not entirely inconceivable that Putin, as he becomes more enraged over the resistance from Ukraine, may decide to use nuclear weapons against not only Ukraine but also those who are aiding Ukraine. He has already threatened as much.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 03-21-2022 at 10:20 AM..
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