Thoughts on modern marketing... overrepresentation?
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Um, OP ... so is every commercial that has "championed" heterosexual relationships over the past, what?, half-century?, been, you know, IDEOLOGICAL?
Well, of course ... but because it's been the DOMINANT IDEOLOGY, it's not noticed.
So you see this commercial (from your 1st post in this thread) and IMMEDIATELY see it as being ideological and something meant to "indoctrinate" us.
And my first thought is to laugh at how you (apparently) never noticed the gazillion commercials of the past 20-30-40-50-etc.-years that tried to ... well ... "indoctrinate" us into thinking that ONLY heterosexuality was the "right" choice (as IF it's a "choice") ... but you don't even seem to NOTICE this because, of course, all those gazillion commercials simply seemed totally "normal" to you.
And I say this as a straight white female in her 60s (although I have a lesbian sister whom I love dearly, if that matters).
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Not to be too polemical, but I teach courses on the media and I showed my students the photo that's on my TD Bank sign-in page (it's a photo of what is apparently a gay male couple with a couple of kids, at least one of whom may be biracial) ... and I asked, "What do you notice about this photo?" And they looked at me like I had 2 heads. And this WAS NOT because every one of my students was gay or trans or something, but because to them, it was just a pleasant photo of a family celebrating something and looking very happy. Nothing ideological about it -- just a happy family.
But if I asked the OP to analyze that same photo, I suspect I would hear that it was a photo meant to "indoctrinate" us. And that is really, really sad.
I wasn't going to respond to this as I felt it was more of a rant than a discussion, but I'll try to do it respectfully. Generally, marketing doesn't have anything to do with ideology. The purpose of marketing is to sell a product to the greatest market possible.
That you mention "ideology" is really at the root of it here. You believe (and correctly me if I'm wrong) that a company should engage in ideology. I respect that, even if I don't agree with it. Many companies produce now what is called a "Sustainability Report," which is an annual report that includes information on what a company is doing to support sustainability in their operations... e.g. what kind of labor they're using, what kind of materials they're using and where they get it from, etc. This can lead to slightly higher costs, but generally speaking most people think of it as a positive. You can search for such a report by going to Google and typing "Sustainability Report <company name>."
A private company can do whatever they want, but a company that's publicly traded generally must abide by certain fiduciary responsibilities in the best interest of the shareholders. Best interest as in, making money. In this case, FitBit is owned by Google... they have more than enough expendable cash to burn that pushing ideology is a concept that the board of directors to the shareholders are accepting of.
Where I think this falls short is that it's entirely intentional, it's the "ideology" aspect of it that gets me. You mention "dominant ideology," and I think what you're seeing is companies that pitch to their greatest market. An advertisement like this would be wholly appropriate on channels such as LOGO, etc. The other aspect of marketing is to appeal to your audience. If they believe that to a large degree, their audience would want to see things like this (even if the demographic is not represented), then they might still also show it. I don't mean this in a snarky manner, but a commercial like this might be more appropriate during commercial break on MSNBC or CNN.
Back on the ideology aspect of it... this advertisement (and the markets in which its playing) serves more as a hammer, than an olive branch. I understand and appreciate that for many people, a hammer might make them feel good because there is genuine "hate" towards the people who may be offended by it; however, this isn't how you build consensus... it's how you push people away... and that's very much my point / concern.
I don't have a problem with an accurate representation of society in marketing, especially things like this when they are specifically targeted to an audience. But why does a transgender man on a stripper pole need to play on commercial break in between my daughter's cartoons? It's no more appropriate to me than a female stripper on a stripper pole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012
And I say this as a straight white female in her 60s (although I have a lesbian sister whom I love dearly, if that matters).
I realize you probably see me as an enemy, and making a lot of assumptions about me as a result. If we are to pull out the proverbial ruler, I have had three friends over the span of the last 20 years who were transgender (two of them went through the surgery). I have at least 3-4 family members who are gay (I say 3-4 because I think one is who doesn't admit it). My daughter was also the flower and ring girl at a lesbian wedding. So you should not assume that because I am questioning this that I am against homosexuality.
I'm against ideology. I want to be able to live my life without people constantly forcing opinion on me at the NFL, in school, and during commercial break, etc...
I'm not saying you're wrong at all... as a Catholic I fully understand the history of the 12 tribes and the primary 4 that exist today (we are taught this), plus the different groups. Jews in NY are a bit more unique as... with the exception of Israelis that have moved here since, most of those families are descendants from the original families that came across on Ellis Island many years ago.
My wife and I celebrate all the holidays, well, at least I do. With each successive generation, we tend to lose more and more people of faith to it becoming more "cultural" than anything else. Many of my wife's friends are Jewish, and not a single one of them has actually been to a temple for anything other than an occasional Bar-mitzvah or funeral.
My wife certainly celebrates the Jewish holidays, but it's really more on my insistence. As you know, the Torah is also the first 2/3rds of the Christian bible, so we teach my daughter all of it. My wife doesn't really get engaged with the Christian holidays (I don't force her to Catholic church, haha)... but we've agreed to teach my daughter both since one is effectively the continuation of the other. You can still celebrate the Jewish holidays while also being Christian. Though I respect your view if you do not agree with that.
For about a decade, I moved multiple places for the Department of Defense, and when we'd look, we'd always seek out the Jewish Community Centers because they usually had good schools, and it was a concession I'd make since I took my wife out of Miami (haha) and she had to move for my work. We didn't always move near them simply because it didn't always make sense. Like in San Antonio, there's a large Jewish community... for many there, it's a cultural thing. I don't see that as either bad or good, I know there is a struggle to ensure that people stay true to the faith. But as each generation progresses, there's a waning of religion (everywhere) unfortunately.
Assimilation has always been responsible for Jews leaving the faith, which is why I think that much of our dietary laws and other religious restrictions were originally intended to keep us apart from the Gentiles so as to resist this assimilation. This was especially true during the Babylonian Captivity in our history. I also think that Jewish historic resistance to assimilation (and, in many instances, fatal resistance to forced conversion resulting in martyrdom) resulted in the survival of Judaism as a major religion right up to modern days, whereas the Pagan peoples of Europe were eventually swallowed up by the Christian Church.
But I'm digressing too much from your original topic. I wish you and your interfaith family all the best. I know there can be challenges, but you and your wife appear to be dealing with these commendably.
I suspect that the marketing intention is to come off as hip and modern.
The younger demographic they're targeting can sit around snickering as they imagine how outraged the old fogies must be by this commercial.
Same-Sex Married Couples Have Higher Income Than Opposite-Sex Married Couples
"How do household income and poverty status differ among these married couples?
Information from the US Census Bureau is a few years old, but still relevant (other than the impact of the pandemic on all households).
Overall, same-sex married couples had a higher median household income than opposite-sex married couples: $107,200 and $96,930, respectively.
Same-sex female married couples had a lower median household income than same-sex male married couples: $95,720 and $123,600, respectively.
Same-sex male married couples had a higher income than opposite-sex married couples but the difference in median household income between opposite-sex and female same-sex married couples was not statistically significant.
Are the ads inserted by the Roku device or channel itself? Have you considered that Roku has managed to connect to your web activity in some way and that these ads are being directly fed to you specifically as being likely to be pro-gay and participating in exercise? Targeted advertising is much more valuable than the random kind, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a whole list of your likely interests, age group, etc.
Are the ads inserted by the Roku device or channel itself? Have you considered that Roku has managed to connect to your web activity in some way and that these ads are being directly fed to you specifically as being likely to be pro-gay and participating in exercise? Targeted advertising is much more valuable than the random kind, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a whole list of your likely interests, age group, etc.
There is a definite possibility of that... especially because I'm really the only one who actually watches Roku. My wife watches Cable (disregards Roku completely), and only occasionally uses HBO MAX app on Roku. My daughter doesn't really watch TV, but again, watches cable and other than the Disney XD channel, doesn't use Roku.
Only thing I can think of possibly is I play the 1980s VEVO Music Video channel... (hahahaha...) which plays everything from Guns n' Roses to Cindy Lauper. But mostly, I'm playing re-runs of Unsolved Mysteries (there's literally a channel just dedicated to that), the Haunting channel (ghost shows) and a LOT... I mean a LOT of This Old House.
It's possible that some of this fits into that marketing profile which promotes some of the few ads that are flagged for such categories.
Last edited by Atari2600; 04-25-2022 at 02:13 PM..
Assimilation has always been responsible for Jews leaving the faith, which is why I think that much of our dietary laws and other religious restrictions were originally intended to keep us apart from the Gentiles so as to resist this assimilation. This was especially true during the Babylonian Captivity in our history. I also think that Jewish historic resistance to assimilation (and, in many instances, fatal resistance to forced conversion resulting in martyrdom) resulted in the survival of Judaism as a major religion right up to modern days, whereas the Pagan peoples of Europe were eventually swallowed up by the Christian Church.
But I'm digressing too much from your original topic. I wish you and your interfaith family all the best. I know there can be challenges, but you and your wife appear to be dealing with these commendably.
No, that's totally ok. Yeah, I think it's sad. There's the good and bad of modern times... you have cultures all over the world that are changing, and it's really incumbent on these groups to maintain their culture and history.
I love the United States... I wouldn't want to be a citizen of any other country. But I recognize that we have our own culture which is made up of other cultures... but at the same time, there are some cultures that were erased as a result of Europeans landing in the new world. Peru is still remote enough that much of the old Incan culture still remains, but the Aztek culture is pretty much gone. Tribes like the Seminole Indians or Miccosukki Indians... they are wealthy beyond belief (the Seminoles own the Hard Rock franchise), but the cultural identity is somewhat lost.
Even in modern U.S., we lose our own culture like that which exists in New Orleans, or Boston, etc... as we integrate, we lose a lot of what made that culture unique (e.g. French influence, old British influence, etc.). Europe... big example there, there's such loss to culture in those countries as they become a "one Europe." Most of the young people born in say, the Netherlands or Belgium, or Germany, etc... there's still a semblance of identity, but they view themselves more as "Europeans" than they do Dutch or German, or Belgian, etc.
But whatever, it's what it is... this has been changing for thousands and thousands of years.
It makes it more difficult when it's religion-based, because it becomes a bit more personal, our faith and beliefs. Catholicism is still very strong... the most prevalent among the denominations, but it's only a matter of time before that's diluted. The Jewish religion makes up less than .02% of the world's population, so it's important for all of us to protect it where we can... or it'll eventually just be a thing of the past.
There is a definite possibility of that... especially because I'm really the only one who actually watches Roku. My wife watches Cable (disregards Roku completely), and only occasionally uses HBO MAX app on Roku. My daughter doesn't really watch TV, but again, watches cable and other than the Disney XD channel, doesn't use Roku.
Only thing I can think of possibly is I play the 1980s VEVO Music Video channel... (hahahaha...) which plays everything from Guns n' Roses to Cindy Lauper. But mostly, I'm playing re-runs of Unsolved Mysteries (there's literally a channel just dedicated to that), the Haunting channel (ghost shows) and a LOT... I mean a LOT of This Old House.
It's possible that some of this fits into that marketing profile which promotes some of the few ads that are flagged for such categories.
If you've accessed your Roku account from a web browser, you could also be tracked via one of their advertising partners who has built a profile of you from many other sites you visit (or anyone else who uses that device). Or they use your IP address to join up some of the dots. It's pretty scary how easily they can gather this data, even if it can often be wrong.
I suspect that the marketing intention is to come off as hip and modern.
Some decades ago, marketing seems to have featured the most anodyne, common-denominator Everyman as a potential customer. This Everyman was boring and generic, to the point that it was the product that was emphasized, and not the consumer. Sure, Everyman was healthy, fit, good looking and well-dressed… but there was nothing particularly catchy or memorable about him. Sometime around the 1980s, advertising evolved. Edgy, provocative customers came to be featured. Their iconoclasm and busting-of-molds became the selling point. Boring old Everyman might buy the competing product. But the cool-kids buy the one being advertised.
Today, it’s not hard to observe what’s the edgy and iconoclastic. And 10-15 years from now, the nexus of edginess will probably shift yet again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012
...I teach courses on the media and I showed my students the photo that's on my TD Bank sign-in page (it's a photo of what is apparently a gay male couple with a couple of kids, at least one of whom may be biracial) ... and I asked, "What do you notice about this photo?" And they looked at me like I had 2 heads. And this WAS NOT because every one of my students was gay or trans or something, but because to them, it was just a pleasant photo of a family celebrating something and looking very happy. Nothing ideological about it -- just a happy family.
In my former locale, the likely reaction would have been, "What the [expletive] are these freaks? Is this supposed to be a family or something? Must be from California!"
If you've accessed your Roku account from a web browser, you could also be tracked via one of their advertising partners who has built a profile of you from many other sites you visit (or anyone else who uses that device). Or they use your IP address to join up some of the dots. It's pretty scary how easily they can gather this data, even if it can often be wrong.
Yeah, that wouldn't be the case here, because I use my browser in private mode, through a proxy, and the cache is wiped every time I get out of the browser, and I also use Kano which changes my browser statistics. I use an encrypted bridge for my e-mail, so there's no back and forth communication. It's really just a force of habit because of the prior career I had. But I definitely think it's probably something with This Old House being flagged as a show that's "compatible" with that market segment, and well... I guess that's it.
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Same-Sex Married Couples Have Higher Income Than Opposite-Sex Married Couples
