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Moderator's note: Split from "How to reduce polarization in the country." Focus in this thread is on ranked choice voting for those interested in continuing the discussion on this specific subject.
The polarization in the country is already at a scary level and increasing. I, for one, find it very disturbing.
One positive I see is the (very nascent) rise of ranked choice voting. A bit lame, I know, but here is how I see it. Right now, the extreme wings in both parties are in ascendancy. You do not want to be vulnerable on your right running as a Republican and on your left as a Democrat. That’s the sort of candidates that win primaries and then wind up in the legislature and governorships and presidency - and we are surprised by the non-functioning government we get. With ranked choice voting, we would have candidates (within parties and independent) closer to the center getting an advantage as the majority will (hopefully) not be on the extremes and the pragmatic candidates closer to the center will gain as acceptable fallback choice. That could reduce the proportion of those with extreme positions in power and lead to a more functioning government. And, that in turn will drive current and aspiring politicians to be more pragmatic (rather than purist) in their positioning.
Of course, the ranked choice voting is far from reality. I am also not sure if it can save the day given how much money is driving the rush to the extremes. But, it is a positive trend that I see. Hopefully others can see more.
I look forward to reading what others think on this topic.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 05-08-2022 at 01:45 PM..
Reason: Edited to focus solely on subject of ranked choice voting.
In Australia we have both what you call ranked choice voting (preferential voting) and voting is compulsory at all levels, including local councils.
It is thought that this may contribute to less polarisation. Our current federal government is centre right and we are in the middle of an election campaign. The main opposition are going to great lengths to portray themselves as centre left rather than just left. The electorate have already disengaged and we have promises like prescription drugs decreasing by $10 on one side and $12.50 on the other. Same promises overall but a bit of different detail.
I imagine Americans would be unimpressed by compulsory voting though.
Ranked choice voting??? That's highly unlikely considering that one of our major political parties already claims that a large percentage of their voters can't even do basic things like acquire identification cards or fill out their own ballot without assistance, or get to the polling place to vote in person even though they may have 2 or 3 weeks in which to do so.
If some party wishes to institute ranked choice voting for their primary election, then I suppose that's their choice, but for the major races in the general election, it's nearly always a choice between two candidates with an occasional third party candidate thrown in to siphon votes from one of the two major candidates.
One positive I see is the (very nascent) rise of ranked choice voting. A bit lame, I know, but here is how I see it. Right now, the extreme wings in both parties are in ascendancy.
Can you explain how Rank Choice Voting works? Without looking it up?
Do you sincerely believe that in a populace where half the voters feel like they got sandbagged when they hear about a thing called The Electoral College that's been around since 1789, that people will accept an outcome based on Rank Choice Voting if the winner is someone who didn't get the most votes?
Rank Choice Voting was used in the New York City mayor's race in the primaries last year. I guarantee you can't find a New Yorker on the subway or riding a bus who has ever heard of Rank Choice Voting, much less explain correctly how it works.
Also, my personal opinion is that it's not the "extreme wings" that are in ascendancy. It's the populist wings. The elites have failed, creating this opening for the populists, and the elites accuse them of being extreme.
Last edited by jtab4994; 05-02-2022 at 03:35 PM..
Reason: Added "Also, ..."
Ranked choice voting might keep some of the worst crackpots out of public office, but the underlying division would remain.
Personally, I don't think it's realistic to expect large numbers of people will move toward a political center ground, and having different viewpoints is fine with me. The aspect I really do not care for is when some take extra-legal actions to gain power. None of us will get everything we want, and part of life is learning to accept this reality.
Can you explain how Rank Choice Voting works? Without looking it up?
Do you sincerely believe that in a populace where half the voters feel like they got sandbagged when they hear about a thing called The Electoral College that's been around since 1789, that people will accept an outcome based on Rank Choice Voting if the winner is someone who didn't get the most votes?
Rank Choice Voting was used in the New York City mayor's race in the primaries last year. I guarantee you can't find a New Yorker on the subway or riding a bus who has ever heard of Rank Choice Voting, much less explain correctly how it works.
Also, my personal opinion is that it's not the "extreme wings" that are in ascendancy. It's the populist wings. The elites have failed, creating this opening for the populists, and the elites accuse them of being extreme.
There's no single answer to that question. By some counts there are up to 13 different forms of RCV.
I could explain to you how #5 at the link works without looking it up, but I'll defer to Wiki.
There's no single answer to that question. By some counts there are up to 13 different forms of RCV.
I could explain to you how #5 at the link works without looking it up, but I'll defer to Wiki.
I had no idea there were that many variations. But that just bolsters my point that in a land where people think Presidential elections are rigged because we have the Electoral College, imagine what would happen when someone from the government tries to explain how Rank Choice Voting works and why it's better.
I don't mean to get hung up on this, but the OP mentioned RCV as one way of avoiding political polarization, and I see it as the exact opposite.
Moderator's note: Split from "How to reduce polarization in the country." Focus in this thread is on ranked choice voting for those interested in continuing the discussion on this specific subject.
The polarization in the country is already at a scary level and increasing. I, for one, find it very disturbing.
One positive I see is the (very nascent) rise of ranked choice voting. A bit lame, I know, but here is how I see it. Right now, the extreme wings in both parties are in ascendancy. You do not want to be vulnerable on your right running as a Republican and on your left as a Democrat. That’s the sort of candidates that win primaries and then wind up in the legislature and governorships and presidency - and we are surprised by the non-functioning government we get. With ranked choice voting, we would have candidates (within parties and independent) closer to the center getting an advantage as the majority will (hopefully) not be on the extremes and the pragmatic candidates closer to the center will gain as acceptable fallback choice. That could reduce the proportion of those with extreme positions in power and lead to a more functioning government. And, that in turn will drive current and aspiring politicians to be more pragmatic (rather than purist) in their positioning.
Of course, the ranked choice voting is far from reality. I am also not sure if it can save the day given how much money is driving the rush to the extremes. But, it is a positive trend that I see. Hopefully others can see more.
I look forward to reading what others think on this topic.
In the NYC Democratic Primary (which is tantamount to election most but not all years) we have ranked choice voting. Sometimes a centrist is the pick but, at least in a recent NY primary, basically it came uncomfortably close to being a disaster. Fringe types were very close to being chosen.
I don't think the method of voting is the problem; I think the primary system is. I hate to say it but a return to the "smoke-filled room", of course without the tobacco, I think, is the solution. Or else media reforms. I think nuts get too much leeway. My $0.02..
We have our federal election in two weeks time. What we get is a sheet with all the candidates for our local seat, often about five or six, and we get to rank them all.But the fun is with the Senate. Sometimes the voting paper has been literally about two feet wide as candidates are grouped in their parties or as independents. You can choose to rank six or more groups, or twelve individuals. Or the lot, if you have plenty of spare time.
Not computerised, not sure why. Pre-voting and postal voting starts today.
But what is believed to be the reason for our fairly moderate political environment is more the compulsory voting, which started in 1924 and is very widely supported. The candidates do not have to work at getting people to vote and the important voters tend to be the large groups of undecided, in the middle of the spectrum voters.
The second leaders debate was on last night and they shouted each other down in the end. Interestingly, Covid has not been an issue at all. It is all the old cost of living, interest rates, inflation. All of which will be with us regardless.
Thank you for sharing the Aussie system. Makes a lot of sense - and reflects what I was thinking when I wrote the original post. I suppose the compulsory voting plays a big role. Not sure if that would fly in the US with all the freedoms we value, but even my own state of Utah offers the second best alternative - vote by mail. Anyone can (and most do) can request their ballot to be mailed to them. This pre-dates the controversy / politicization of vote by mail in the last election. Anyway, that leads to a larger proportion of people voting, although there are voting groups that don't.
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Ranked Choice Voting - debate pros and cons
