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First, is the social isolation. The ability to work at home alone and not meet face to face with coworkers or clients doesn't seem like a big deal. And you could also argue that people can always just go out to social events after they work? But long-term what would happen if millions of Americans take the path of least resistance and just become sedentary, reclusive, overweight and depressed?
We really just started a true WFH type society, yet even before the pandemic, millions of Americans were already sedentary, overweight, and depressed. Upwards of 75% of the population was already in the overweight or obese category. Even if one doesn't agree with BMI measurements, we still had a lot of people with excess weight. Also, since they were essentially forced to work amongst others, the ability to be more reclusive was never an option. It is possible millions of Americans would rather not have interact daily with others.
For me, my total daily commute is around eighty minutes, and I miss rush hour traffic for the most part. If construction wasn't an issue, my commute might be closer to just sixty minutes, but my state is addicted to the road lobby money, so we are constantly in a construction phase somewhere along the interstate. After getting to WFH for a little while, I hate that complete waste of time of commuting. I would much rather have at least two or three days at home to focus that time on taking care of yard stuff or working out.
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Originally Posted by lair8
Second, is outsourcing. If you can get the same job in Kansas as you can get in NYC, but have way more disposible income, great? But what happens when companies just hire people from other countries and pay them $12 hour to work remotely instead of paying $25-40 an hour for an American to work remotely.
This is already an issue and has been for a while. There has also been a move to onshore some jobs because clients got sick of speaking with "Jason" who had a heavy and hard to understand accent. Before, countries like the US could use their stronger currency, sanctions, etc.. As the planet seems to be changing to where countries are now forming more continental level governing bodies, this issue will be a big one.
Nope. Been doing this for over 16 years and it has allowed us to live in different areas of the country. We have been able to live where we want to live. Currently, we live in an area we used to vacation in. We basically get to live on vacation year round. Relocate to work in an office? Nope. Not happening in my lifetime.
My first professional job was in 1973. It was with a consulting firm and I was working outside the office anyway. They didn't care where I lived. I just returned to my place on Friday's instead of the office.
If I was needed in the office they expected me to show up.
In the late 1980's, after the birth of my daughter I told my employer I was working from home for a couple of months. I was stunned at how much more productive I was working from home. This was the days of one phone line, and I showed my supervisor how to send a instant message to my screen and I would hang up and return his call.
After that experience he had no problem with me working at home. I only did it when I was under a deadline to complete a project. Several supervisors have also suggested that I go work from home at critical points in a project. They clearly saw a benefit.
When I had an employee whose mother was dying and see needed to take care of her. I let her work from 1500 miles away. I got some really weird time sheets as she worked around her mothers needs. She did that for over two months. A couple of folks dropped by the office and asked where she was as they wanted to chat with her. They had no clue that she had been working remotely for two months.
Working remotely makes sense for some jobs and not others. If you have a good employee it doesn't matter if they work remotely or in the office. The important thing is getting the job done.
No, it will finally break the cycle of non-sustainable high density urban cores and allow the population to disseminate into smaller need recourses and small community footprints.
No, it will finally break the cycle of non-sustainable high density urban cores and allow the population to disseminate into smaller need recourses and small community footprints.
How are high density urban cores any less sustainable than sprawled out suburban office parks? The majority of office space is in suburban areas and the majority of people live in low density suburban sprawl.
Offices and urban cores are intricately linked. I don't think it's a big leap to take the results from this finding on spill over effects in urban cores to spill over effects from people being in the office - here too the people that benefit the most from a peopled office are the top level managers who's jobs are easier when they don't have to reach out to team members virtually. Does the average person benefit much though? I think not.
Regarding the OPs initial question, I just don't think there's tons of gains from outsourcing that can be achieved. Most workplace mishaps are a result of lack of communication, not lack of manpower. Language and time barriers make communication much harder, despite being able to muster a lot more manpower on projects.
Another thing I don't see mentioned is any discussion of the size of the overseas labor pool relative to demand. If many companies in the developed world all tried to hire in that market, the supply/demand balance would shift to the point that their wages would start to increase. That would reduce the incentive for further companies to continue doing that. There would still be some sort of economic equilibrium, not an irreversible, one-way change. Keep in mind, also, that the effective size of that labor pool is smaller than you might think, because those in very poor countries without reliable internet cannot participate.
I guess time will tell. If companies that switched to the WFH model remain profitable, then it will stay. If those companies lose money, then back to the office workers go. Personally, I see good and bad. Better on the environment. On the negative, there is also something to be said about the ever increasing isolation in society. Work did allow one to get out their bubble. I've been working from home since before the pandemic, but I will admit I miss the office at times. Wouldn't mind working a hybrid type of schedule.
My opinion is that it is here to stay. That being said regular face to face is necessary in most working environments as trust is something that must be cultivated amongst high performing teams. Doing this via video and/or FT remote is extremely difficult but I am old fashioned that way. Hybrid work arrangements of any type are ideal (2 days a week, 2 days every other week, etc.). People like me can be paranoid when things are too quiet for example and I always feel better after sitting with people not to mention the ad-hoc knowledge exchange that happens in office environments.
Hybrid WFH is a win win if managed correctly but I think it requires a change in manage style and perhaps culture that some companies are slow to adopt and view the results of a WFH program negatively. Each circumstance is unique, even new employees may require more office time upfront vs. seasoned employees for example to learn the ropes, get to know who is who, etc.
Regarding outsourcing, I have dealt heavily with outsourcing over the years and the company I used to work for actually had an entire business unit based in India where we would 'outsource internally' certain work. I do not view it as a threat to the WFH paradigm at all. It is my experience that once skillsets match comparable skillsets in the US (say a true mid-level developer in India), the costs go up and value proposition diminishes. The more specialized the skills the more companies want to hire them as FT employees vs. offshore consultants. Saving 30K on a mid level dev annually isn't that much when they work the same hours as you, are regularly physically present, etc.
I see your point and I don't entirely disagree with you, however I feel that being "schmoozy, highly filtered, artifically upbeat" is also known as being civilized, and those skills are more and more becoming lost skills.
From my own personal experience as an introvert who has worked from home for decades, I do need to leave my home studio 2 or 3 days per week to meet and engage with clients and colleagues. Yes, I force myself to schoooze, filter my expression (to avoid being rude or offensive), and often behave "artificially upbeat".
I find those outings to be healthy for my mental well-being overall. I also have made good friends with some of those people after being in their company repeatedly over a long period of time. After awhile, as I get to know people better, the connection is less and less artifical.
For introverts like me, I am thankful that I am required to leave the house 2 or 3 days a week, even when I'm not so inclined by nature. It's good for me.
I have often been jealous of the healthy social networks that my two sisters enjoy. One works for a school district, the other is in healthcare. It seems like they both have a ready-made, thriving social networks from the people they work with. They make friendship look easy, thanks to their jobs. It's harder for me.
Schmoozy and upbeat in the stuffy corporate environment I worked in after college, equated to brown nosing, butt kissing and a rather toxic envt (sp). I don't need to be fake and artificially upbeat to be civil to co-workers and work well on a team. Maybe to get brownie points with upper management, but that was never my goal lol. I've never used a job to make friends though nor have I worked with people anywhere near my age or close to where I lived, where those friendships could continue after work ends. I keep work and my outside life completely separate. I'm an ambivert though, so working remote and not being forced engage in small talk with folks that I probably don't like very much, has been a blessing. Plus, not having to worry about commuting..golden. I am looking for work outside the home though pretty soon, strictly bc my company is the pitts, I am not finding remote work that pays well, and with my husband home too, it's just too much togetherness lol
Last edited by HeyYa80s; 04-05-2023 at 12:53 PM..
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