Obesity Is largely genetic (healthcare, cost, administration, Baltimore)
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Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark
This completely ignores the fact I was pointing out that some people's bodies reduce their total daily energy requirements alone with reducing calories. If you don't have that kind of body... good for you. But you don't speak for everyone.
There are tons of studies that show this. Both with reduction of calories and with exercise.
The people that lose weight and say.. just reduce calories and exercise more can't imagine the rules for the rest of us... and that is the problem.
Obviously there are some people that are lazy and eat a ton but more and more it seem obvious there are a lot of people that can't lose weight.
Actually it doesn’t. I agree metabolism plays a role, but cutting calories usually cuts weight. I went on a pretty strict diet and after a while I stopped losing weight as fast as I did when I started. But I didn’t stop losing weight with the calories cut, just not as fast.
If you weigh 200 and cut 1000 calories a day to say 1500 calories and your maintainance was 2500. Then you stay at 1500 calories and you now weigh 170 and maintainance is 2000 calories, your calorie deficit is only 500 a day instead of 1000. So you weight loss would be less unless you dropped to 1000 calories which isn’t usually healthy.
Actually it doesn’t. I agree metabolism plays a role, but cutting calories usually cuts weight. I went on a pretty strict diet and after a while I stopped losing weight as fast as I did when I started. But I didn’t stop losing weight with the calories cut, just not as fast.
If you weigh 200 and cut 1000 calories a day to say 1500 calories and your maintainance was 2500. Then you stay at 1500 calories and you now weigh 170 and maintainance is 2000 calories, your calorie deficit is only 500 a day instead of 1000. So you weight loss would be less unless you dropped to 1000 calories which isn’t usually healthy.
This is not true. Kevin Hall did studies on this and found a massive drop on the biggest loser contestants. Further Herman Ponzer found that both humans and animals that did a ton of exercise in "the wild" had no greater TDEE than office workers in the USA.
Cutting calories for any period of time can drop some people's TDEE massively and it never comes back, these are the facts that people just continue to ignore because it doesn't happen to them.
The fact is 80% of people gain it back but it is always put own to lack of control and eating too much. But that doesn't make sense any longer.
Research like Hall’s is beginning to explain why. As demoralizing as his initial findings were, they weren’t altogether surprising: more than 80% of people with obesity who lose weight gain it back. That’s because when you lose weight, your resting metabolism (how much energy your body uses when at rest) slows down–possibly an evolutionary holdover from the days when food scarcity was common.
What Hall discovered, however–and what frankly startled him–was that even when the Biggest Loser contestants gained back some of their weight, their resting metabolism didn’t speed up along with it. Instead, in a cruel twist, it remained low, burning about 700 fewer calories per day than it did before they started losing weight in the first place. “When people see the slowing metabolism numbers,” says Hall, “their eyes bulge like, How is that even possible?”
I don't buy the mostly genetic argument.
Never seen an obese person who got that way by eating meat and eggs. Maybe it happens, but I've never seen it.
It may, though, be a social thing. The family eats poorly, so the kids eat poorly and everyone is overweight. That makes it look genetic.
Don't drink alcohol; Don't eat salads; Don't eat processed foods. You'll be at your ideal weight.
Yeah. "Salads". You don't need all that stuff. You have to drench them with flavored machinery oil before they taste like anything. I never eat salads. 5'10"/ 180 pounds. Cholesterol 134; triglycerides 60.
Dieticians tell a different story. But they just teach us what they were taught. What if the book is wrong....?
It is. Not sure why.
I eat salads, but I do not use salad dressings. Put enough flavorful veggies
/fruits in there and wean oneself off the need for dressings.
Use a calorie counter app and see where the extra calories are creeping in. Salad dressings, peanut butter, mayo…..they don’t seem like much, but they are diet busters.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark
This is not true. Kevin Hall did studies on this and found a massive drop on the biggest loser contestants. Further Herman Ponzer found that both humans and animals that did a ton of exercise in "the wild" had no greater TDEE than office workers in the USA.
Cutting calories for any period of time can drop some people's TDEE massively and it never comes back, these are the facts that people just continue to ignore because it doesn't happen to them.
The fact is 80% of people gain it back but it is always put own to lack of control and eating too much. But that doesn't make sense any longer.
You need to recheck your research. That’s two so called studies. There’s way more research and studies that back up the calorie cutting idea.
Do you understand what bmr is? If not you should check into it. In my example the first person has a higher bmr and needs higher calories to sustain life functions.
as you lose weight you have a lower bmr thus you need less calories to sustain that weight. That also means you need to lower calorie intake and adjust if you want to continue to,lose weight.
What was once a calorie intake that had you losing weight is now an amount that sustains the new lower weight, but not losing weight.
I spent a year dieting and learning about nutrition, calories, macros. I tracked everything on a spreadsheet daily. Losing the first 15 lbs was easy. Same calorie count after that yielded less weight loss because my bmr went down. The solution is to lower calories but there gets a point where you can’t cut any more without having issues.
It’s not so much metabolism as it is about getting lower bmr.
I guess if you are referring to what I’m talking about then maybe we are thinking the same thing.
The trick is to keep your calories at the new level which keeps you at your new weight. Most people however will revert to some form of cheating which puts weight back on.
I wonder if that is a genetic component. We were all skinny kids in my family. Granted, my mother cooked the heck out of everything so you usually didn't want more, but we were also thin adults until about 30. Then bang, weight started staying. Now I've witnessed it happen to my own daughter, now 32. She was naturally thin until a couple of years of ago. She is not obese, but she's not the thin young woman she once was. She eats mostly vegan (except for, weirdly, oysters of all things and the occasional salmon) and does not drink alcohol, and that's for about eight years.
In order to lose weight, I too have to watch my sugar intake. Not soda, or "sugary drinks", which everyone in every one of these conversations seems to assume everyone drinks (I think I may have drank a ginger ale earlier this year, but other than that day, no soda, no juice, etc.) but for me, it was ice cream, which I used to eat every day and now only have once or twice a year. But if I eat bread too many days in a row, I see a difference in the scale, although that could be due to water weight from the high salt content and the carbs in general in bread holding water in the body.
Anyway, definitely in my family we had a higher metabolism in our younger years. Even now, as I age, I see a difference. In 2020, with my blood sugar too high and having gained weight, I started eating mostly fish and vegetables, walking and doing some weight work at the gym and lost 27 pounds in about six months. I am doing the same thing now, but I've only lost 14 pounds in six months. It doesn't seem right, but now I am 65 instead of 62, and that seems to be the only difference.
I think a 14-pound loss in six months is fine if you're keeping it off. Better that than no loss at all. Keep trying for more and it can happen. I'm pleased that I'm 10 pounds less than I was a year ago and 71 pounds down from two years ago.
You need to recheck your research. That’s two so called studies. There’s way more research and studies that back up the calorie cutting idea.
Do you understand what bmr is? If not you should check into it. In my example the first person has a higher bmr and needs higher calories to sustain life functions.
as you lose weight you have a lower bmr thus you need less calories to sustain that weight. That also means you need to lower calorie intake and adjust if you want to continue to,lose weight.
What was once a calorie intake that had you losing weight is now an amount that sustains the new lower weight, but not losing weight.
I spent a year dieting and learning about nutrition, calories, macros. I tracked everything on a spreadsheet daily. Losing the first 15 lbs was easy. Same calorie count after that yielded less weight loss because my bmr went down. The solution is to lower calories but there gets a point where you can’t cut any more without having issues.
It’s not so much metabolism as it is about getting lower bmr.
I guess if you are referring to what I’m talking about then maybe we are thinking the same thing.
The trick is to keep your calories at the new level which keeps you at your new weight. Most people however will revert to some form of cheating which puts weight back on.
Another point to understand is that losing fat is really just, for a good amount of time, merely reducing the size of the fat cells. Those cells are still there like deflated tires...waiting to store unused energy.
It's going to take three or so years for the body to actually slough off those fat cells...you have to maintain control of your calorie intake and exercise for that long.
The truth is, 99% of the people who are overweight/obese would shed most of the excess weight if they consistently ate a calorie-appropriate diet.
Some people trying to shed weight eat a high-quality, calorie-appropriate diet much of
the time.........but then "reward" themselves by bingeing/overeating and justifying it
as a cheat-meal or a cheat-day.
Many people keep their wild overeating/binge sessions very secret, so those around them
insist that the person is wholly compliant with their diet.
In 1984 and before in the US Obesity and Overweight people combined represented 14% or less of the total population.
In 2023 the total percentage for Obesity and Overweight people combined represent 70% of the total population.
I put very little stock in the genetic excuse for obesity, and far greater stock in the fact that our food supply in the US has been modified for the worse, impacting lower socioeconomic groups especially.
-Mid 1980's- Modern Wheat entered the food supply. This is a semi-dwarf high yield variety with much higher gluten content compared to the past. You can easily follow the exponential growth in obesity in the US after it entered into all items sold, be it packaged store breads, processed foods, frozen foods, fast foods, etc. Also, glyphosate is a toxin and wheat is sprayed with all of those nefarious pesticides.
-Early to mid 1990's- High Fructose Corn Syrup became infused in more products sold in place of cane sugar. Many studies have concluded that the body does not process the artificial properties of HFCS in the same way as a more natural derivative like cane sugar.
-1990's to present- Soybean oils and soy proteins. This goes back to increasing subsidies to farmers- enter excess soybean production. I have a special dislike for anything soy derived because it greatly aggravates my skin in the worst way possible. I blame pesticide accumulation due to it being a cover crop.
-The solution as I've mentioned in other related threads is to eat SINGLE INGREDIENT FOODS. Check all food labels for everything you buy. Eat lots of fresh fruit and veg, drink plenty of water, eat lean meats preferably from a farmer you know, and consume moderate levels of starches. DO NOT consume things with wheat, high fructose corn syrup, or soy whenever possible. If you do these things, you will never have to worry about OBESITY specifically for the most part- unless one has a number of other specific genetic and medical conditions, which is a small percentage of the population.
Last edited by GraniteStater; 11-20-2023 at 09:25 AM..
In 1984 and before in the US Obesity and Overweight people combined represented 14% or less of the total population.
In 2023 the total percentage for Obesity and Overweight people combined represent 70% of the total population.
I put very little stock in the genetic excuse for obesity, and far greater stock in the fact that our food supply in the US has been modified for the worse, impacting lower socioeconomic groups especially.
When you look at how the situation changed in so short a time, you realize that it isn't genetic, it's environmental. Are there some genetic influences...yes. But clearly, whatever those genetic influences are, we only lost control of them because of relatively sudden environmental changes. And when these changes have occurred so quickly that people in one generation can observe them, that is sudden.
Quote:
-Mid 1980's- Modern Wheat entered the food supply. This is a semi-dwarf high yield variety with much higher gluten content compared to the past. You can easily follow the exponential growth in obesity in the US after it entered into all items sold, be it packaged store breads, processed foods, frozen foods, fast foods, etc. Also, glyphosate is a toxin and wheat is sprayed with all of those nefarious pesticides.
-Early to mid 1990's- High Fructose Corn Syrup became infused in more products sold in place of cane sugar. Many studies have concluded that the body does not process the artificial properties of HFCS in the same way as a more natural derivative like cane sugar.
-1990's to present- Soybean oils and soy proteins. This goes back to increasing subsidies to farmers- enter excess soybean production. I have a special dislike for anything soy derived because it greatly aggravates my skin in the worst way possible. I blame pesticide accumulation due to it being a cover crop.
-The solution as I've mentioned in other related threads is to eat SINGLE INGREDIENT FOODS. Check all food labels for everything you buy. Eat lots of fresh fruit and veg, drink plenty of water, eat lean meats preferably from a farmer you know, and consume moderate levels of starches. DO NOT consume things with wheat, high fructose corn syrup, or soy when ever possible. If you do these things, you will never have to worry about OBESITY specifically for the most part- unless one has a number of other specific genetic and medical conditions, which is a small percentage of the population.
I agree with all of that. I've mentioned before, also, that eating habits have changed from the consumption of calories only three times a day to the consumption of calories for many people every waking hour of the day. Many people never go an hour without consuming calories of some sort.
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(I think I may have drank a ginger ale earlier this year, but other than that day, no soda, no juice, etc.) but for me, it was ice cream, which I used to eat every day and now only have once or twice a year. But if I eat bread too many days in a row, I see a difference in the scale, although that could be due to water weight from the high salt content and the carbs in general in bread holding water in the body. 
