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We can argue till the cows come home about what restrictions there are/will be with UHC, but we can be sure there will be some.
In my post I did mention thta there can be a private insurance supplement to the UHI that would pick up where UHI leaves off.. or leaves out. Because UHI is very comprehensive in England, the additional insurance for insurance companies is a tough sell..as most peoples needs are met by their UHI. This , in turn, causes the additional insurance to carry a low premium to lure more consumers. This takes care of the concerns that things will be restricted. It also addresses the issue of having to be in a room with many beds vs. a private room etc. I think that this could work quite nicely.. having your needs met and buying cheap supplemental insurance to pick up where UHI might restrict.
As for universal coverage. I say no. Here in the US we have far too many illegals and unemployed individuals for it to cover everyone. Plus, have you even seen how the universal system works in Socialized countries? If you aren't about to drop dead be prepared to wait weeks or months to even get into the doctors office.
'Frankie117' I don't know where your information is from, but you are completely wrong about how the system works in Europe. I live in the UK and also in France, have many relatives all over both countries and can speak with much experience. It is absolutely not the case that you wait 'weeks or months to even get into the doctors' office.' With respect to the high standards of this forum, what utter nonsense! If I or any of my family want to see a doctor, we telephone at 8.30 am and we are always seen the same day - we have had the same family doctors for 17 years, and they are wonderful. The only time I have ever had to wait is when I have been in the waiting room and a sick child has come in - they always give babies priority, and rightly so.
When it comes to more serious ailments, when my DH had a kidney stone, not only was he seen at once in the ER, but the routine follow-up visits were arranged for the following week, and a check up three weks later. I have had routine surgery with a wait of eleven days.
As for prescription drugs - wow, the differences between US and UK! I am on 6 medications (mostly for stuff like high BP) and I pre-pay yearly - the whole lot costs me £92 (about $160) - and that also covers any other meds I might need such as antibiotics. All are free if you are under 18 or over 60.
And that is just as it ought to be. People often say that they can't think of anything to be proud of about their country - well, I am proud of our National Health service. Yes, you pay a bit more in tax - but you are never one illness away from financial ruin,as so many in the US seem to be, you don't need to work beyond 65 just to be sure of your health care, and you can bet your life that nowhere in the UK or in France will you see those sad pleas for money which seem to be on every second shop counter in the US - a recent one I saw was asking for help to fund the care of desperately premature twins. All are humanely cared for here, as they ought to be - no one, young or old, is turned away for lack of funds.
Wow, what a great perspective from someone who has first-hand knowledge. I'm sure there are some drawbacks, but it still sounds great to me!
[quote]Yes, you pay a bit more in tax they ought to be [quote]
Amyalta : Exactly who is YOU and exactly how much is a BIT MORE?
I would seriously like someone from the UK (geero maybe?) and someone from the Netherlands (TrickyD comes to mind) to break-out the actual before and after cost of UHI to someone in these areas. Until then, the YOU is undefined and the BIT MORE would always be subject to debate.
I need a serious cost benefit analysis to get convinced.
I am not an expert on the UK or Netherlands, but in Germany they have the single payer health care system. You and your employer share the cost for healthcare and it is a percentage of your salary. If you are self employed you can purchase private insurance, if you so chose and if you make over a certain $ amount, you can opt out and also pay for private insurance. You don't use your health insurance if you are unemployed or if you are retired.
Never had any waits for doctors if it was urgent. For routine check ups, the wait time was the same as it is here. The current co-pay for medication is 5 Euros and if you are low income, that is waived.
No system is perfect, but after living with both systems for a significant length of time, I would take the German system any day, over the mess here. Even with insurance, it is a big hassle to get reimbursed, either they "lose" the paperwork, claimed it never got there or some other thing happens to delay payment.
Coming from a country where everyone has health insurance and NO ONE ends up losing their home because of medical bills, the system here is just totally unacceptable to me. Here, I pay more for less service. Never had to argue and fight with an insurance company until I came here 16 years ago. Every year I go to Germany for a month and am amazed when people over there whine and complain how the co-pay is now 5 Euros, they don't know how good they got it.
I just count my lucky stars that I am healthy and only go to the dentist twice a year and the eye doctor once a year... yet even with that I have problems.
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The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau
Thank you katzenfreund for your input. In Germany, how do retired people pay for their healthcare? Is there a similar social security system and is their healthcare part of this? What about the disabled (incl disabled who can't work)...how is their healthcare paid for? Does Germany "dictate" to you which doctor you see? Do all the doctors charge the same fee? Do you get a flat reimbursement for a procedure, and if you decide to go to a more expensive doctor, you pick up the difference? All of the above questions are predicated on the insurance company's diminished participation in healthcare except for those who want to purchase private insurance, so the concept of "in-network" (which by definition includes contractual arrangements with providers) and "out-of-network" are gone. Is there a big master schedule that is public and uniform, much like a hospital's chargemaster, that provides transparency and visibility to fees to be charged before? How are premiums and healthcare costs treated in Germany's taxation system?
Bitbit, yes, they pay towards health care, but it is based on their income. It is 13% of your salary, but you only pay half, your employer pays the other half, so it is 6.5% for the employee. If you have a spouse or children and your spouse does not work, he or she would be covered also, as would your children.
Retirement is similar to social security, but you get a larger % of your income. But that is another subject.
You get to see any doctor you like. You don't have a co-pay per se, you do have a fee that you pay per quarter, it is very small, I think around 10 Euros (but you should hear people complain about this, all I can do is laugh!) . No matter if you go to the doctor 10 times or 1 time. Again, if you are below a certain income level, you pay nothing. You never pay the doctor a fee, only the quarterly fee. There are no co-pays per visit. The doctor gets his/her money directly from the insurance, which is a set price agreed to between them. Which cuts down a lot on the hassle for the consumer.
If you are disabled you get government benefits and health care is part of that. NO one is without health care, unless they are illegals ;-) (you do have an insurance card).
Here is a link to a pretty detailed explanation of the system. There have been minor changes since then, such as the quarterly 10 Euros. I Health Care in Germany
Hope this helps to answer your questions.
Please note this article is written from the view of the UK, so in effect comparing the NHS to the German system.
__________________
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau
I am not an expert on the UK or Netherlands, but in Germany they have the single payer health care system. You and your employer share the cost for healthcare and it is a percentage of your salary. If you are self employed you can purchase private insurance, if you so chose and if you make over a certain $ amount, you can opt out and also pay for private insurance. You don't use your health insurance if you are unemployed or if you are retired.
Never had any waits for doctors if it was urgent. For routine check ups, the wait time was the same as it is here. The current co-pay for medication is 5 Euros and if you are low income, that is waived.
No system is perfect, but after living with both systems for a significant length of time, I would take the German system any day, over the mess here. Even with insurance, it is a big hassle to get reimbursed, either they "lose" the paperwork, claimed it never got there or some other thing happens to delay payment.
Coming from a country where everyone has health insurance and NO ONE ends up losing their home because of medical bills, the system here is just totally unacceptable to me. Here, I pay more for less service. Never had to argue and fight with an insurance company until I came here 16 years ago. Every year I go to Germany for a month and am amazed when people over there whine and complain how the co-pay is now 5 Euros, they don't know how good they got it.
I just count my lucky stars that I am healthy and only go to the dentist twice a year and the eye doctor once a year... yet even with that I have problems.
katzenfreun, are private insurance providers allowed to deny coverage for preexisting conditions? I think that's the single biggest problem with our system. It shouldn't be that way.
katzenfreun, are private insurance providers allowed to deny coverage for preexisting conditions? I think that's the single biggest problem with our system. It shouldn't be that way.
I agree, but I think it's a bit deeper than that. The reason they deny coverage is because the system is set up for profit. It is not a corporation's interest to actually insure unhealthy people, those who need it the most.
I'm using my own colloquial definition of lifestyle disease here, not your textbook definition. I have some family members who are Type 2 diabetics because of their lifestyle, and a wife who has been Type 1 since she was a child. It's a bit of a sore spot for me I'll admit; it's insulting when I hear them complain about their diabetes. Type 2 can be usually be manageable with some lifestyle changes.
katzenfreun, are private insurance providers allowed to deny coverage for preexisting conditions? I think that's the single biggest problem with our system. It shouldn't be that way.
Hmm, to be honest, I don't know because I never had the private insurance. I was perfectly happy with my insurance But my father did and he had a LOT of health problems, he got coverage anyway. The reason why he got the private insurance is because he was self employed and had a high income, so the private insurance for him was cheaper. The good part is, that you WILL be insured, through the statutory funds, they can NOT deny you coverage and they do not.
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The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau
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