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Sorry, but even the DEA no longer uses "Gateway drug" as their anti-marijuana propaganda point. It's been repeatedly proven to be completely false. I tried milk before I smoked a joint, so I guess that milk is a "gateway drug" too. Wouldn't Caffiene be the TRUE gateway drug?
What I don't get is how a clearly intelligent person (as your ability to write shows quite well, I will admit that you're a lot smarter than most who argue against my opinions) can still not see that marijuana is less harmful to society than sugar, caffiene, tobacco and alcohol. I've been high on marijuana before with ecstasy, cocaine and heroin being offered to me by a gorgeous woman who wanted me to be "on something" when we fooled around together. I still turned it down because I know the harms of those more dangerous drugs. I was 18 at the time, and have had cocaine and ecstasy offered to me on numerous occaisions since, and have yet to partake. My sister dropped acid before she tried marijuana, cocaine or speed. My college roommate snorted Adderall before moving on to cocaine, but he felt that marijuana was just for hippies. The simple fact is that coincedence is not the same as correlation. People confuse that all the time. In the immigration forums, when an immigrant commits a crime all those anti-immigration people immediately blame all immigrants for crime, saying that immigrating illegally leads to crime. But that's simply not true, the #1 factor in crime is poverty.
The #1 factor leading to drug addiction is depression. So instead of blaming marijuana, we should blame parents for not taking care of their children's psychological problems at a young age. Plus, addiction is a hereditary trait.
I guarantee you that more cocaine users drank caffiene or alcohol than smoked marijuana.
When the DEA gives up on a piece of propaganda, you know it's been refuted enough...yet you continue to use THAT as your talking point?
Hmmm.... not looking at propoganda. Looking at information provided in an academic setting today. Unless you work for the DEA, you're point is completely useless. I provided my argument and the best response you can come up with is a bloviated mass to replace "nuh uh!!"??? C'mon Lefty... you're better at spewing rhetoric than that. Attack me again personally or something... but you have to come up with better than this. Please!!
Why not cigarettes/tobacco? This has much more addictive potential than pot. You're talking to someone with plenty of experience here. (When I am smoking pot I can cut my tobacco smoking to nearly nil, as it helps with the cravings for nicotine, FWIW - if I decided to start regularly smoking pot again for an extended period it's plausible that I could kick the tobacco habit for good....been thinking about it actually)
I'm with you... no arguments from me!! Now what? "Oh... duh... nevermind... we should still legalize drugs!!!"
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Originally Posted by jfre81
Huh? It's Schedule I because it's a gateway drug like alcohol, but alcohol is legal? Score one for Anheuser-Busch and the liquor purveyors.
And we missed our opportunity with alcohol also. Cracked to peer pressure. But, two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81
Our lesson was....what again? That making alcohol illegal did not decrease use (check the reference I gave here a few posts back) and empowered organized crime at unprecedented levels? I think it was a lesson well-learned - well, sort of. We keep up the charade of doing that with pot and other drugs.
No... our lesson was that our society can't handle a drug as simple as alcohol (based on the 10,000-30,000 alcohol-related deaths a year). But we want to increase that number. Great philosophy!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81
You're also assuming that everyone who is opposed to the drug war is a heavy drug user. I know a lot of libertarian-type thinkers who have the same position who've never touched the stuff. I had this viewpoint before ever trying it. What I did later on - maybe you could call it "personal research."
I sure hope you can find any post of mine that says that. There are a lot of people who haven't even tried the drug that are for legalizing drugs. There are a lot of people who are still alive for state-assisted suicide, too. So what? The point here?!?? Or are you just trying to poke at me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81
FWIW though, some of the clearest and most motivated thoughts I've had were under the "influence." Don't let that "cloud" your propaganda though.
Didn't make this up... got it out of an academic book. Feel free to write the publisher!!! But denying truisms don't make them falsehoods.
Hmmm.... not looking at propoganda. Looking at information provided in an academic setting today. Unless you work for the DEA, you're point is completely useless. I provided my argument and the best response you can come up with is a bloviated mass to replace "nuh uh!!"??? C'mon Lefty... you're better at spewing rhetoric than that. Attack me again personally or something... but you have to come up with better than this. Please!!
It's funny, when I prove you to be wrong and myself to be right, you barely even have an argument, you just say "come on!" That's what someone says when they know they've lost an argument. What the Drug Czar and the DEA say IS propaganda because they have about as much basis in science as the Nazis did when claiming Aryans to be the "master race".
If the DEA and the other anti-drug agencies still believed in the now refuted "Gateway theory (http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study-say-marijuana-no-gateway-drug-12116.html - broken link)" wouldn't they still be using that as their anti-marijuana scare tactic? Over the years, the DEA has used various baseless ideas on the negatives of marijuana without any kind of research into them. On the other hand, the pro-marijuana/anti-prohibition side has done a lot of research and study. First marijuana made people super-strong killers, then radical communists, then they were brain-dead hippies, then they were future heroin/cocaine users, now they're just lazy. Simply put, they keep diminishing the negatives, but some people still cling to the propaganda that has long since been refuted. I know you believe this whole 10-30,000 people die a year thing about Alcohol, but marijuana simply doesn't cause the kinds of deaths that alcohol does. No matter how you look at it, the negatives of prohibition far outweigh the negatives of legalization. You don't ever have a new point other than propaganda and the whole "we already have one, why do we need another?"
Location: Wandering the halls aimlessly...Hello? Is anyone there?
307 posts, read 455,461 times
Reputation: 129
I see it everyday! What better testimony than one who deals with those under the influence? Do you have any idea how many families are in turmoil or are torn apart because of drug use? Now imagine that number if you legalize this crap. Its bad enough that we have alcoholics to contend with and you want to give society free reign on dope and narcotics?
Your argument means nothing to me because I've seen first hand what these so called "hard" and "Soft" drugs do to folks looking for that first buzz.
Its bad enough that we have kids out there breaking into mommy and daddy's liquor cabinet, can you imagine if they happened upon thier heroin or meth stash too because it was now legal?
Are you actually listening to yourself? The scarey thing is you believe all this crap. This is not about left wing, right wing, conservative or liberal BS. This is about legalizing a drug known to not only alter ones perception, but also act as a catalyst for certain types of cancer in the human body.
Like I said, anyone who supports the legalization of drugs that are deemed illegal need to divert their energy elsewhere. There are alot of good organizations that could use your lobbying power such as cancer treatment centers, child shelters, battered womans shelters etc. Those, my freind are causes worthy of time and effort. Pushing dope into society is not.
Go smoke another doobie and say high to the pink elephants for me ok? (Yeah HI is intentionally mispelled)
Didn't make this up... got it out of an academic book. Feel free to write the publisher!!!
That would be made easier if you shared what book this was. I'm sure if it was a good source you'd have no problem letting us know what it is.
I've cited my source that shows that alcohol use did not go down during prohibition in the 1920s-30s, and it would seem to undermine winterscorpion's argument too.
I see it everyday! What better testimony than one who deals with those under the influence? Do you have any idea how many families are in turmoil or are torn apart because of drug use? Now imagine that number if you legalize this crap. Its bad enough that we have alcoholics to contend with and you want to give society free reign on dope and narcotics?
I love it when people use this argument to support their views on prohibition. What makes you think just because something is legal, everyone and their mama are going to do it? It's legal to smoke, but you won't see me going into walmart and buying five packs to smoke after dinner. It's legal to eat pork, but you won't see me going into the supermarket and buying ten pounds of the stuff so I can eat it all in one go. Both have been proven to be detrimental to health, yet they are legal. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS LEGAL, DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE WILL ENGAGE IN IT. Really, is it that hard to understand? Sure, you'll have people that will smoke till they drop because it's legal, or will eat pork until they choke, but most of us won't. Most of us won't engage in dangerous drugs because of the legality. Sure you'll have the people that will because they know they won't get in trouble for trying, but for the rest of us we won't. If heroin was legal tomorrow, I still wouldn't try it because I know the negative side effects. EDUCATION is the only way to combat drug use. When you EDUCATE people instead of spewing emotional rhetoric, they'll come to realize that -legal or not- some drugs are bad.
Quote:
Your argument means nothing to me because I've seen first hand what these so called "hard" and "Soft" drugs do to folks looking for that first buzz.
If our arguments mean nothing to you, then why are you even on this board debating the matter? When you debate, you are supposed to consider what the other side is saying and come out enlightened. I always consider the opposing point of view and can see where they are coming from. That's what DEBATE is about. If all you want to do is spew your opinions and not listen to what others with opposing points of view has to say, then go somewhere else; I'm sure you'll be accepted with welcoming arms.
Quote:
Its bad enough that we have kids out there breaking into mommy and daddy's liquor cabinet, can you imagine if they happened upon thier heroin or meth stash too because it was now legal?
Just imagine if mommy and daddy EDUCATED their kids about the negative side effects of alcohol or drugs for that matter. Maybe they would be less likely to break into the cabinet or look for a stash of coke.
Quote:
Are you actually listening to yourself? The scarey thing is you believe all this crap. This is not about left wing, right wing, conservative or liberal BS. This is about legalizing a drug known to not only alter ones perception, but also act as a catalyst for certain types of cancer in the human body.
The scary thing is that you are not willing to listen to the other side. Stress is a catalyst for cancer and in some instances causes it. Maybe we should outlaw that too so people won't be so strung out. Drug use is a symptom of a much larger problem. Punishing the symptom does nothing to stop the problem. That's what you fail to realize.
Quote:
Like I said, anyone who supports the legalization of drugs that are deemed illegal need to divert their energy elsewhere. There are alot of good organizations that could use your lobbying power such as cancer treatment centers, child shelters, battered womans shelters etc. Those, my freind are causes worthy of time and effort. Pushing dope into society is not.
So your saying that my cause is unjust and I should do what you deem good causes? Give me a break! No one is trying to push dope into society; it's already here. All I advocate is decriminalizing the act! I don't want people to use drugs but it is their constitutional right to do so as long as they are not threatening the well being of another. Step away from your emotions and look at the issue with a clear mind.
Quote:
Go smoke another doobie and say high to the pink elephants for me ok? (Yeah HI is intentionally mispelled)
Peace
Winter
I'll smoke my doobie and tell the elephants all about you. In the meantime I'll still advocate what I believe is just.
The undeniable fact is that drug prohibition is unconstitutional. This can be seen in the way it was done. All the people punished for drug use have been for nothing. Drug prohibition made drug smuggling and dealing profitable and destroyed Miami which I observed growing up. You cannot legislate morality. I would like to see drug dealers and smugglers eliminated, and the only way to do it is to decriminalize drug possession. The use can also be decriminalized but individuals would still be responsbile for their actions. I would immediately release all persons convicted of drug violations and redirect that svaings in prison funding to drug treatment and research. Minors would still be prohibited by law from using drugs because they are not of consent age. However, the declining governmental system refuses to make progress and will continue to support drug prohibition at the expense of most citizens.
[quote=winterscorpion;6732749]I see it everyday! What better testimony than one who deals with those under the influence? Do you have any idea how many families are in turmoil or are torn apart because of drug use? Now imagine that number if you legalize this crap. Its bad enough that we have alcoholics to contend with and you want to give society free reign on dope and narcotics? you fail to see that drugs are as available now as they would be legal. They currently do have free reign on them. Law does nothing but create holes for criminals to fall into. If you catch one it reopens the hole. It is an endless battle that you can't win with anything short of tyranic oversee of all of society. Or you can fill the holes with the good willed and easily regulated. Tax them to put money into finding a true cure of all societies problems instead of medicating them.
Your argument means nothing to me because I've seen first hand what these so called "hard" and "Soft" drugs do to folks looking for that first buzz. What do they do? No one is smoking pot stuck in an endless search for that first buzz. Same with "hard" drugs. Their addiction has nothing to do with the first buzz. It's all about the next.
Its bad enough that we have kids out there breaking into mommy and daddy's liquor cabinet, can you imagine if they happened upon thier heroin or meth stash too because it was now legal? sadly we do have them now. Rational people don't do heroin or meth. Irrational people dont obey laws. To suggest that good responsible parents would turn to them because they were legal is obsurd. I actually find it insultin. Wouldn't it be nice if we had away to know who is buying them and if they have kids they are taken care of?
Are you actually listening to yourself? The scarey thing is you believe all this crap. This is not about left wing, right wing, conservative or liberal BS. This is about legalizing a drug known to not only alter ones perception, but also act as a catalyst for certain types of cancer in the human body. It is a very liberal idea. Prohibition that is. America produces many things that alter perception and also things that produce cancer. Btw marijuana can only cause lung cancer. Theoretically, there isn't much proof that it does. Intact it's a handy medication for cancer.
Like I said, anyone who supports the legalization of drugs that are deemed illegal need to divert their energy elsewhere. There are alot of good organizations that could use your lobbying power such as cancer treatment centers, child shelters, battered womans shelters etc. Those, my freind are causes worthy of time and effort. Pushing dope into society is not. Like I said anyone who supports prohibition supports terrorists and criminals. You all that are for prohibition should divert your energy into said areas.
Go smoke another doobie and say high to the pink elephants for me ok? (Yeah HI is intentionally mispelled) they don't like you
Peace
Winter
Location: Wandering the halls aimlessly...Hello? Is anyone there?
307 posts, read 455,461 times
Reputation: 129
[quote=allah truth;6742414]
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterscorpion
I see it everyday! What better testimony than one who deals with those under the influence? Do you have any idea how many families are in turmoil or are torn apart because of drug use? Now imagine that number if you legalize this crap. Its bad enough that we have alcoholics to contend with and you want to give society free reign on dope and narcotics? you fail to see that drugs are as available now as they would be legal. They currently do have free reign on them. Law does nothing but create holes for criminals to fall into. If you catch one it reopens the hole. It is an endless battle that you can't win with anything short of tyranic oversee of all of society. Or you can fill the holes with the good willed and easily regulated. Tax them to put money into finding a true cure of all societies problems instead of medicating them.
Your argument means nothing to me because I've seen first hand what these so called "hard" and "Soft" drugs do to folks looking for that first buzz. What do they do? No one is smoking pot stuck in an endless search for that first buzz. Same with "hard" drugs. Their addiction has nothing to do with the first buzz. It's all about the next.
Its bad enough that we have kids out there breaking into mommy and daddy's liquor cabinet, can you imagine if they happened upon thier heroin or meth stash too because it was now legal? sadly we do have them now. Rational people don't do heroin or meth. Irrational people dont obey laws. To suggest that good responsible parents would turn to them because they were legal is obsurd. I actually find it insultin. Wouldn't it be nice if we had away to know who is buying them and if they have kids they are taken care of?
Are you actually listening to yourself? The scarey thing is you believe all this crap. This is not about left wing, right wing, conservative or liberal BS. This is about legalizing a drug known to not only alter ones perception, but also act as a catalyst for certain types of cancer in the human body. It is a very liberal idea. Prohibition that is. America produces many things that alter perception and also things that produce cancer. Btw marijuana can only cause lung cancer. Theoretically, there isn't much proof that it does. Intact it's a handy medication for cancer.
Like I said, anyone who supports the legalization of drugs that are deemed illegal need to divert their energy elsewhere. There are alot of good organizations that could use your lobbying power such as cancer treatment centers, child shelters, battered womans shelters etc. Those, my freind are causes worthy of time and effort. Pushing dope into society is not. Like I said anyone who supports prohibition supports terrorists and criminals. You all that are for prohibition should divert your energy into said areas.
Go smoke another doobie and say high to the pink elephants for me ok? (Yeah HI is intentionally mispelled) they don't like you
Peace
Winter
Peace
Tell your little elephant friends to get in line....
As long as I have a say so and a vote, your pipe dream of having a society of stoners will never become a reality.
'Nuff said
Peace
Winter
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