Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Label soda bottles anyway you want. I can convert celcius to farenheit with ease. Label products with both, I will check the per ounce cost and ignore the other.
But I want to know how many "MILES" it is I'm going, the Mph not the KPH, and when I'm cooking I'll deal in cups and ounces thank you. When I buy fabric I want to buy in inches and yards.
The metric system may be simple and easy but it doesn't mean anything to me. I can't visualize it. If anyone wishes to switch fine, but never say its so "easy". Its not just the math, its the concepts of space and time in your head that matter too.
And why must we be like the rest of the world anyway?
There are many useful things about the metric system. For one, virtually all other countries will be able to have spare parts available for servicing products that are designed for metric. I wouldn't expect people to want to use products with Imperial parts if they couldn't find spare parts (i.e. exporting of US products).
Base 10 math.
Measurements are simpler. An M4 screws fits into an 4 mm (or larger) hole, but in Imperial a #8 screw fits into a 0.166" hole. That's kind of odd.
In science calculations, there is a confusion between pounds force and pounds mass, but in metric there is no such problem because mass and force use different units.
Temperature in Celsius goes from 0° (water freezing temp.) to 100° (water boiling), whereas Fahrenheit is 32° to 212°. Going from 0 to 100 seems more logical for bounding freezing and boiling of water. I believe if you told a young child this, it would make more sense and be more understandable than 32 and 212.
It's mainly an issue because people aren't used to using it, and of course the spare parts/existing parts issue.
"Bon jour, mon amie. Would you like 454g of butter today?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
There is absolutely no reason - NONE - for the United States to switch to the metric system
Actually, Greatday, this is not demonstrative of your usual good sense!
I'm an ex-pat Canuck, now a certified Yank. There was great dismay and resistance when Canada changed to Metric SI; one of the v. few things they've done that I approve of over the past, what, 50 years, BTW...
People had that "No-one's gonna ram Metric down MY throat, dammit!" response. When they changed all the speed signs, etc., all heck broke out, but they persisted.
Our American heritage is one of fierce independance. In this case, it will and has cost us already. Let's be fiercely intelligent!
Today, over two decades later, kids, teens, young adults up there (anyone over, say, 25) can't understand the English system. When I mention, say, that it's 75˚ here, they say "Wow! That's really hot!" Of course they're thinking ˚C, which would be 167˚ F. Hot indeed!
Interestingly, in food commerce, such as down at the Super-Value, they still list meat, butter, etc. in both: $/lb and $ or cents/kg. A lot of old recipe books out there!
The expense of operating outside of a norm is perhaps hidden to most, but real nonetheless. Container shipping, packaging, printing everything in an alternate system, or in both (as in "750ml; 25 oz). As a real-world example, the absurd expenses incurred in Canada by having to print everything in both English & French has been borne by an unwitting populace for decades. Billions of $$$! Utterly ignorant and political at best.
Having had the exposure to both the English & the Metric SI system, and being both an engineer and scientist, I also build all of my wood-working projects in metric. Sooooo much more logical and easier to measure something as 14.3cm versus "5 - 1/2, plus a couple of those slightly smaller marks, and one of the really little marks". Then you walk over to the wood you want to cut and say "Now what was all that again?"
BTW, all US autos are designed in Metric now. Has been that way for quite a few years. Yes, they still use English size fasteners, but not exclusively, and they do it only to aide the relatively "stupid" and highly resistant auto mechanic's biz. Well, except for the shops working on Euro and Asian and everywhere else's cars! And of course, the US Automakers appear to be totally on the ropes, so soon enough....
Easier to add, multiply, divide and remember. Far fewer mistakes, costly errors, etc. Proven that the mind can remember easier, more common-sense things easier.
You can even easily convert your estimating in certain common situations, such as yardage. For most common uses, 100 yards = 100 meters. Hunting, sports, etc. No problem. We're notoriously inaccurate at this at any rate.
Well, there's my two bits worth, from the perspective of experience in a cultural changeover. Hope it's of use.
Last edited by rifleman; 01-06-2009 at 03:55 AM..
Reason: typos
Temperature in Celsius goes from 0° (water freezing temp.) to 100° (water boiling), whereas Fahrenheit is 32° to 212°. Going from 0 to 100 seems more logical for bounding freezing and boiling of water. I believe if you told a young child this, it would make more sense and be more understandable than 32 and 212.
Good post, f_m. I always wondered about just why the English temp system was so, well, illogical. Here's their reasoning. The lowered freezing point of seawater is 0˚ F, it's boiling point, being lower with its salt content, is 200˚ F. Come to find out later that fresh water freezes @ 32˚ F; and its boiling point is 212 ˚ F.
This came from back when Britain ruled the world via the oceans. Of course the salinity varies greatly, seasonally, etc., but they did their early research with supposedly stable salinity. Sorta makes sense, and you've got a nicely divided 200 unit range, twice as good a resolution as the Metric SI system.
Last edited by rifleman; 01-06-2009 at 04:03 AM..
Reason: typos
NOOOO!
I'm trying to cook Christmas Dinner, here! I have NO IDEA how to change over cups and teaspoons to metric!!
Go AWAY!!!!!
LMAO! I just got an awesome set of All-Clad measuring cups for Christmas. Danged things look like little saucepans. I'd hate to see them become obsolete.
And why must we be like the rest of the world anyway?
So you're worried that by switching to the metric system we'll become like the rest?? Don't worry I'm sure the highest murder rates for an industrialized nation, the growing problem with drugs and alcohol, the War in Iraq, our foreign policy, and being the policemen of the world definitely sets us apart.
It's not about being like the rest, it's about logic and being smart. With all the major economic problems we are having, switching to the metric system would do wonders for our economy. We would actually be able to sell American cars overseas (that's if the stop selling sh*t to everyone here) on a wide scale and the heartache and headache's of not trying to think what a 3 miles would be in kilometers would be done away with forever. For the sake of your children or your grandchildren or great children, let's do the smart thing and switch.
And why must we be like the rest of the world anyway?
Well, I can’t answer that question. You'll have to decide why that may just be a good idea.
But from the perspective of an educator in math and English, my question would be, “Why do we have to do everything the hard way?”
We use an archaic measurement system that takes far more time to learn and is far more ‘accident prone’ when it comes to computation and conversion. We also use a ridiculously archaic spelling system in our language that makes very little sense.
Why do we do this? Well, the only answer I have been able to come up with is because “that’s the way we do it” (tradition). And perhaps a healthy dose of bull-headedness.
An earlier post hit the nail right on the head (something about everyone over forty sticking with the old ways). Good idea. The only way these archaic systems are going to be forgotten (as they should be) is if the newer generation is taught more efficient systems from the get go. If no one had ever been willing to change, we’d still be using the Roman numeral system or making scratches on cave walls.
Personally, I go about my daily affairs using the English measurement system too, but having to teach both systems has given me a clear view of just how ridiculous our measurement system really is… and, personally, I have no problem learning something new if it is going to make life easier and more efficient for me and those around me. I say, leave the really hard problems and work to things that really should be hard.
Hey ChrisC and rifleman, great posts! I just finished a Math Concepts for Teachers course and we covered Imperial vs. Metric and it was amazing how many of the students were having to whip out their calculators and textbooks to answer conversion questions...not converting miles to kilometers but simple inches to yards to miles!!! Many didn't even know how many feet there were in a mile. And this is coming from people who have lived their ENTIRE LIVES under the Imperial system!!! (BTW - this is an evening college course and many of the students are adults.)
But the metric system...after about 30 minutes everyone in the class could quickly do metric conversions without any supplemental tools.
I'd also like to say that it's much easier to cook in metric. I had to learn it fast when I cooked with a foreign cookbook and believe me, I learned it's very simple to work with weight instead of volume.
With weight, you'll know exactly how much flour to add because the recipe will tell you the weight needed. In the Imperial system, you have to rely on volume by using measuring cups, and for example measuring flour can be tricky because there is a difference between sifting before measuring or after. (You'll end up with two different amounts!) Or the 'one cup less one tablespoon' measurement??? Yeah, that's NOT efficient!
And it's funky doubling a recipe when the dry volume units are in fractions! Much easier figuring out the double of 640 grams instead of doubling 2 2/3 cups. How many people simply end up measuring out 2 2/3 TWICE instead of figuring out what 2 2/3 + 2 2/3 is and doing one measurement? But even then you'll be dirtying up more than one measuring cup because you have separate cups for 1 cup, a 1/3 cup, a 1/2 cup...and so on.
And it's funky doubling a recipe when the dry volume units are in fractions! Much easier figuring out the double of 640 grams instead of doubling 2 2/3 cups. How many people simply end up measuring out 2 2/3 TWICE instead of figuring out what 2 2/3 + 2 2/3 is and doing one measurement? But even then you'll be dirtying up more than one measuring cup because you have separate cups for 1 cup, a 1/3 cup, a 1/2 cup...and so on.
You bring up another good point. Being the only ‘math’ person in my immediate or extended family, I don’t know how many times someone in the family has come to me with a question about changing a recipe from ‘serves 6’ to ‘serves 2,’ or doubling a recipe, or halving it. Of course, I only get the question when the measures are things like 1 3/4 cups, 3 1/3 cups, etc… which most are!
Question from the ‘Imperial Hound’:
Hey, I’m making my favorite French recipe. The recipe calls for 3 3/4 cups of browned escargots and serves six. I only want it to serve three. How can I figure that out?
Response from me:
Well, let’s see. You’ll need to find half.
Imperial Hound:
I know that, stupid. So how do I find it?
Me:
Change 3 3/4 to a fraction by multiplying the denominator with the whole part of the number, then adding the result of this product to the numerator. Take that result and place in over the old denominator. Multiply that with 1/2 to find half. You then covert this fraction back into a mixed number by dividing the numerator by the denominator and writing your remainder as a fraction.
Imperial Hound (as she walks away shaking her head):
What? … Thanks, jerk.
Me:
Hey, hey! You asked how to do it. I answered!
Imperial Hound:
Okay, wise guy. Just tell me what it is.
Me:
It’s 1 7/8 cups.
Imperial Hound:
That’s better. Thanks.
Me:
Remember the parable about teaching a man to fish, rather than just giving him a fish.
Imperial Hound:
Yeah, yeah… stuff it.
... and we are silenced, troubled by the fact that this dialog shall soon be repeated.
-------------------------------------------------
EQUIVALENT METRIC SYSTEM DIALOG
Comment # 1 from the ‘New Metric Convert’:
Hey, I’m making my favorite French recipe. The recipe calls for 88 centiliters of browned escargots and serves six. I only want it to serve three. I would normally ask you to help me with that, but that’s easy. It’s 44 centiliters. I guess I won’t need your services.
You bring up another good point. Being the only ‘math’ person in my immediate or extended family, I don’t know how many times someone in the family has come to me with a question about changing a recipe from ‘serves 6’ to ‘serves 2,’ or doubling a recipe, or halving it. Of course, I only get the question when the measures are things like 1 3/4 cups, 3 1/3 cups, etc… which most are!
No need to go to all that trouble. Measuer 1 3/4 cups twice. (and not all recipies can be doubled and still work)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Bon jour, mon amie. Would you like 454g of butter today?"
I just finished a Math Concepts for Teachers course and we covered Imperial vs. Metric and it was amazing how many of the students were having to whip out their calculators and textbooks to answer conversion questions...not converting miles to kilometers but simple inches to yards to miles!!! Many didn't even know how many feet there were in a mile. And this is coming from people who have lived their ENTIRE LIVES under the Imperial system!!! (BTW - this is an evening college course and many of the students are adults.)
So how do I find it? 
