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The average sentence of all offenders in the US is four years. Nearly all prisoners are betwen the ages of 18 and, say 58, to make the arithmetic easy. The recidivism rate is about 60%, but highly variable for different crimes. That means in order to maintain the same prison population, for each ten people released, 6 will come back and there will be four new convicts. That means that every four years, four new people are sent to prison who have never been there before. If there are now 2 million prisoners, we will need 800,000 new ones every four years, or 200,000 per year, to replace those who do not reoffend after release. So, during any 40 year period of a generation's adult lifetime, 8-million different people will be sent to prison, plus the 2-million already there who will keep going back. Total, ten million different individuals sent to prison. Over 90% of all prisones are male, and there are 100-million adult males in the US. That's 8%, or one out of 12 males who will spend time in prison during any person's lifetime.
Hmm...your arguement makes sense if your statistics are accurate. I can't see the flaw, but I can't believe the result.
I have to disagree with the cause there. I don't think that is anything to do with religion. You are talking about those who don't have a purpose in life. Those people exist in all walks, both religious and nonreligious, and always have. I don't think it has anything to do with the population as a whole being less religious.
If you look at different countries around the world, some of the least religious countries have the lowest crime rates, and some of the most religious have the highest crime rates.
For example, several recent studies show Japan near the top of both the lists of nonreligious/atheist countries and countries with low crime. On the other hand, the US is still highly religious compared to many countries, and we have a higher crime rate than most. In addition, if you include war crimes, highly religious areas walk away with the prize for the most crime over historical periods.
I don't think an increasing level of atheism in society is a contributing factor. A decreasing level of morality definitely is, but the two are not necessarily related. I believe that the rising level of crime is much more accurately blamed on our society's move away from the idea of personal responsibility. Everything is always someone else's fault, and someone else's problem, including the behavior (or more accurately misbehavior) of one's own children.
(I'm not sure whether to appreciate the distinction you made between those who are actually atheist/agnostic and those who just don't give a **** about anything at all, or whether to be insulted that you felt the two were close enough to require a distinction)
A light in the forest! A beacon of intelligence! I knew it had to show itself eventually.
I did. I wouldn't have written something like that, without doing so first. Very few of the prisoers there were political prisoners perceived to be a threat to the state. Most were declared guilty of various civil criminal offenses, although not all received trials.
How many of the people in American prisons are any more dangerous to our society than the guys sent to the Gulags, or any more deserving of punishment?
Given. The way your post was written gave me the exact opposite impression of what you were wanting say. Sorry 'bout that, and thank you for clearing it up.
Last edited by Tek_Freek; 06-16-2009 at 03:52 PM..
I have to disagree with the cause there. I don't think that is anything to do with religion. You are talking about those who don't have a purpose in life. Those people exist in all walks, both religious and nonreligious, and always have. I don't think it has anything to do with the population as a whole being less religious.
If you look at different countries around the world, some of the least religious countries have the lowest crime rates, and some of the most religious have the highest crime rates.
For example, several recent studies show Japan near the top of both the lists of nonreligious/atheist countries and countries with low crime. On the other hand, the US is still highly religious compared to many countries, and we have a higher crime rate than most. In addition, if you include war crimes, highly religious areas walk away with the prize for the most crime over historical periods.
I don't think an increasing level of atheism in society is a contributing factor. A decreasing level of morality definitely is, but the two are not necessarily related. I believe that the rising level of crime is much more accurately blamed on our society's move away from the idea of personal responsibility. Everything is always someone else's fault, and someone else's problem, including the behavior (or more accurately misbehavior) of one's own children.
(I'm not sure whether to appreciate the distinction you made between those who are actually atheist/agnostic and those who just don't give a **** about anything at all, or whether to be insulted that you felt the two were close enough to require a distinction)
I believe I made the distinction very clear. And I did so because many people don't see the difference.
Write us a letter when you get settled in Iran would you?
How come the US is only to be compared to the "worst" examples of whatever is debated, and never the "good" examples, such as other Western, developed countries?
These stats are pretty much the same as shown on a/several documetary/ies on National Geographic (as part of the Lockdown- series).
What many people who have studied this "phenomenon" believe isn't really that Americans per say are more inclined to commit criminal acts, but that the American society is harsher than most other western, developed societies.
I.e. since the 1970's, the criminal justice system/American people believe more in punishing than in rehabilitating.
Result: When you commit a crime, you are supposed to be treated like dirt, and serve as much time as possible without anything do to (college education is only given in a minority of prisons), and then get out into the free world with all the hate and anger from life and life in prison built up inside you.
There is no rehabilitation for most inmates, there is no support once the inmates are let out of prison.
There's a reason appr. 75% of all inmates end up in prison again within 5 years of being released.
What really needs to be done (besides from fighting poverty, gangs etc.) is for us, the criminal justice system et al to be more lenient towards criminals. Society and criminal justice system should not treat inmates like they are the scum of earth, because that is what many of them are already thinking, and reinforcing that belief will only lead to self-fullfilling prophecy. Treat them like humans, rehabilitate them in prison, and outside the walls, and give support (e.g. councelling, help in finding jobs, etc.)
We might think "why spend any money on those criminals who chose to become criminals in the first place?", but that is what we're thinking right now and look at what it's giving us.
If anything is going to chance, we, the people, need to make the change. The criminals won't, that's evident.
Quote : 'How come the US is only to be compared to the "worst" examples of whatever is debated, and never the "good" examples, such as other Western, developed countries?
Why even compare the US ? No need to ; its not going to change the status quo . Its obvious to all that the US (via many forms) enables and grooms tomorrows sexual hedonists, sexual perversionists, sexual degradation thru Porn , children out of wedlock, infanticide (pregnancys in the name of sexual hedonism) , attitudes of entitlement / narcissism , irresponsible handling of finances with our own Government as a Model, twisted philosophies like 'everyone should be tolerant' (of ones immorality and deviant behavior) , a person makes up his own standards for living, a disdain toward time honored and civil values, morals, and ethics....and a proclivity toward Liberty at the expense of righteousness .
This is what America has become whether you take a look at other countries or not ; THIS is the country where our sons, daughters, and grandchildren will reside . And the snowball is picking up speed as it makes its way down the slippery slope of no return and utter ruin. The next decade will bring this to light , and the perilous times we are in now will be seen as not so bad .
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