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As a point for debate. We are not occupiers. After the de-throning of Sadam, we helped the Iraquis form a new government. At that point were vere invited. to stay and help the government rid the country of terrorists and help set up the new government. President Bush stated many times if we were asked to leave, we would.
many Iraquis stated, yes we would like the American troops to leave but, not until the country is made safe.
We have turned over all military and police operations to the Iraquis. We are there as a trainning and back-uo force. As the Iraqi Government gets better at doing thier job we will continue to draw down our forces.
As a point for debate. We are not occupiers. After the de-throning of Sadam, we helped the Iraquis form a new government. At that point we were invited. to stay and help the government rid the country of terrorists and help set up the new government. President Bush stated many times if we were asked to leave, we would.
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That's not related to the issue. There remains to this day absosutely no credible evidence that Saddam ever harbored a terrorist, tolerated any in his country, or aided or abetted any. Not a single one.
We hand-picked a dictator of our own choosing, and yes, at that point we were invited to stay.
The things President Bush stated many times have all turned out to be bold-faced lies, including the one above about terrorists, and about WMDs. And about Saddam being worse than a couple of dozen similar dictators of countries that have no oil. Thousand of Iraqis asked us to leave with IEDs alongside the roads. When we do leave, we will be taking their oil with us. I understand why Bush did that, but I do not excuse him.
It all depends on where you're standing. Usually when a group of men fly two airliners into large buildings in one of the most densely populated places in the world killing thousands their bosses call it "motivation". When you get to watch one of your family members jump to their death instead of being burned to death you call it an "excuse".
Just for Cultured, when people stuff their faces and become obese they use "addiction" as an EXCUSE.
The salient question here is, why did they fly the plane into the buildings?
To kill people? No. They had no way of knowing that the WTC was not built to code and it would collapse. They had no way of knowing that the office supervisors, after the first crash, would refuse to allow the employees to orderly evacuate the building, and whipped them all back their cubicles.
If the building had been built to code, and the workers had been allowed to evacuate, the number of victims would have been small, maybe even zero. Such a plot would ordinarily have a very tiny chance of killing anybody, except the passengers on the plane. It was a simple hijacking. Obviously, the terrorists had no intention of killing people on the ground. If they did, they would have crashed the planes into a school or a hospital or something. So rule that one out.
Was it because they hated freedom? Then why didn't them bomb a building in Norway or New Zealand, or any of 50 other countries where people are just as free as Americans, if not more so? Why did they pick on the USA?
Was it because they hated the corporate empires of the world, that were infiltrating their countries with commercial marketing of products and entertainment arts that were conflicting with their traditional cultures? That would make the WTC a symbolic target. The WTC was, above all, exactly what it claimed to be: a trade center. The Pentagon, so to speak, of global corporate marketing fighting a war for the economic domination of the entire planet. A perfectly logical target. Not to kill people, but to express opposition to global marketing of western ideas.
Not an excuse. A reason. If you don't understand the reason why they attacked the WTC, what chance to you have to predict or anticipate those motivated by those reasons? If you don't understand why so many people died in a building that could have been safely evacualted, what chance do you have in the next such incident?
We were occupying their land, our government and our corporations. They are MUCH different than we are, and so is their religion, they do not want and will not accept occupation.
While I understand your sentiment, in this case you just have your facts wrong.
One of the arguments put forth by the Somali's is that their waters were violated by European fishing fleets and that their waters were used to dump toxic waste, depleting their fish stocks and reducing local fishermen to abject poverty. Well at one time that may have been true, but in the ensuing years, piracy has become big business and that is just what it is.
As for the U.S. patrolling the waters off of Somalia, that is certainly true, but patrolling international waters off the Horn of Africa is something that every blue water navy does and has nothing to do with Somalia.
It all depends on where you're standing. Usually when a group of men fly two airliners into large buildings in one of the most densely populated places in the world killing thousands their bosses call it "motivation". When you get to watch one of your family members jump to their death instead of being burned to death you call it an "excuse".
Just for Cultured, when people stuff their faces and become obese they use "addiction" as an EXCUSE.
What was the purpose of the last statement? I don't get it? If you want to debate, debate. But to come out of nowhere and just add some jerk-off remark that has no real purpose is immature at best. Why?
Anyway, I don't think anyone says looking at ones motivation for doing wrong = excusing the behavior. Why do people constantly link the two when theu have no direct correlation at all? Motivations and reasons behind any action or problem should be researched and looked at. There are people who look for the motivation behind why serial killers do what they do? Why, because they want to find a reason to excuse their behavior? NO, because they know if they figure out ones motives they can learn how to stop them, how to profile others so it doesn't happen again. That's what smart people do. Thanks to the smart people who look for motivation and reasons, we can learn from history so it doesn't happen again.
Nothing flares my temper more than being blamed for something I didn’t do. I’m a target because I happened to be born on a certain piece of real estate? That attitude shows the IQ of a dust mite. Blame me for things I’ve actually DONE, for christ’s sake. When a car runs over a child in the street, do you blame the tire valve stem cover? That’s what I am (along with most other folks in the country): a valve stem cover on the ‘US machine.’ As such, I have no control over the grand scheme of things. Don’t blame me. I’m locked in as a simple wealth generation device for the grand cause.
In my opinion, terrorism is rather like going into the forest and shooting squirrels because you don't like bears. The best way to lower my sympathy for a cause is to have a group of terrorists 'go shooting squirrels.' If they simply understood the dynamics of the forest, they would find that many of us 'squirrels' aren't exactly thrilled with the actions of the 'bears' either. For me personally, terrorism only lessens any sympathy to what may well have been a legitimate cause (something that I may have actually agreed with before somebody went brain dead and started taking innocent people out). Terrorism might scare some, but it p**ses others off. There is no better way to make new enemies than to slaughter indiscriminately. Terrorism is what happens when intellect is replaced by stupidity.
As for piracy: Being a thief (another form of stupidity) doesn’t exactly win points with me. I'm pretty old-fashioned in that regard--I still feel stealing from others is wrong. Of course, that doesn't just apply to the 'bad guys.' We have a bad habit of putting pirates and thieves into positions of power in our country who practice their art both domestically and abroad.
What was the purpose of the last statement? I don't get it? If you want to debate, debate. But to come out of nowhere and just add some jerk-off remark that has no real purpose is immature at best. Why?
Anyway, I don't think anyone says looking at ones motivation for doing wrong = excusing the behavior. Why do people constantly link the two when theu have no direct correlation at all? Motivations and reasons behind any action or problem should be researched and looked at. There are people who look for the motivation behind why serial killers do what they do? Why, because they want to find a reason to excuse their behavior? NO, because they know if they figure out ones motives they can learn how to stop them, how to profile others so it doesn't happen again. That's what smart people do. Thanks to the smart people who look for motivation and reasons, we can learn from history so it doesn't happen again.
Wow, I 'm suprised that such a "smart person" couldn't conclude that last sentence reinforced my point. DEPENDING ON WHICH SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT YOU ARE STANDING ON to me determines how something is phrased or viewed. "Smart people" understand that one person's "motivation" is anothers "excuse". And P.S. watch the language, they've been known to get chippy in here.
Nothing flares my temper more than being blamed for something I didn’t do. . . . . As such, I have no control over the grand scheme of things. Don’t blame me. I’m locked in as a simple wealth generation device for the grand cause.
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As a citizen of a free country, every individual shares the responsibility as well as the benefits of what we all do collectively. You and I have an equal share in the cost of whatever our nation does as a whole.
Every single window pane broken by Americans in Iraq, is vandalism that I have a share in the responsibility for. I have to pay for it. I was opposed to the senseless moron's narcissistic war from day one, but as an American, my share of the cost of fixing it is still incumbent on me. My money, without a single drop of their oil, to repair the damage caused by all Americans collectively. That is the meaning of democracy. We all have an equal share of the responsibility for what we do together. It was done with the advice and consent of all of us. I begrudge the bill, but I have to pay it.
You and I are blamed for something we didn't do, because that is how democracy works. Every member of the lynch mob is equally a murderer, because you did nothing to stop it.
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