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Except work. They were told in school that they will get ahead if they work. They were lied to. They will just load 16 tons of number nine coal, and owe their souls to the company store.
Whats your point, we should all quit work and play the lottery? I never thought I would really get ahead, but if you watch your P's and Q's, you can put yourself in a pretty good position when you retire.
Whats your point, we should all quit work and play the lottery? I never thought I would really get ahead, but if you watch your P's and Q's, you can put yourself in a pretty good position when you retire.
Well, I know your point. Those workers "haven't done anything to deserve" any share of the wealth that their work generates or contributes to. More than just work--- The increased production from inventiveness and creativeness comes from the workers on the job thinking of better ways to do it, not the tycoons in the boardroom and the shareholders, who, in your opinion, are the only people who deserve any of the fruits of the workplace.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
Well, I know your point. Those workers "haven't done anything to deserve" any share of the wealth that their work generates or contributes to. More than just work--- The increased production from inventiveness and creativeness comes from the workers on the job thinking of better ways to do it, not the tycoons in the boardroom and the shareholders, who, in your opinion, are the only people who deserve any of the fruits of the workplace.
I have spent a long time in and around the oilfield and I've known a lot of people who've spent their entire lives doing that work. What I learned from those guys is that someone who is still swinging a hammer for a living in his fifties or sixties is swinging that hammer for a reason. I have a lot of respect for those guys, but if they were going to achieve something they would have done it a long time ago. Someone like that is where he is because of choices he made (or didn't make); it isn't because some insidious, nebulous "man" has been pulling strings behind the scenes to keep him down. Not everyone can achieve uber-money, but anyone can achieve comfort in life by his own hand. Very seldom is it actually injustice... Its usually just bad judgement.
Good post Jimbo, most of us middle class comfortable families did it with education, making sound savings decisions and putting in a very good days work.
Good post Jimbo, most of us middle class comfortable families did it with education, making sound savings decisions and putting in a very good days work.
But this thread is not about you. It is about the uber-rich. Who, mostly, came from very rich families, went to very expensive universities, and put in their day's work wearing Gucci shoes. People who (as was said about GWB), were born on third base and thought they hit a triple.
Obviously, it does trickle down or you would not have a job.
Many don't. The current official level in Ca. is what, 12%?
Some say the unofficial or uncounted level in significantly higher.
As I see it the economy is a merry go round that deposits cash at the top on each go around. Traditionally it took about a 4% unemployment rate to give a sufficient edge to the top. I.e. enough elasticity in the supply of labor that labor can't affect the top.
It's easy to see this kind of thinking in something like the Wall Street Journal. Rising Wages = "Inflation", but Rising Price of What the Top Owns and Sells = "Good Economy".
I have spent a long time in and around the oilfield and I've known a lot of people who've spent their entire lives doing that work. What I learned from those guys is that someone who is still swinging a hammer for a living in his fifties or sixties is swinging that hammer for a reason. I have a lot of respect for those guys, but if they were going to achieve something they would have done it a long time ago. Someone like that is where he is because of choices he made (or didn't make); it isn't because some insidious, nebulous "man" has been pulling strings behind the scenes to keep him down. Not everyone can achieve uber-money, but anyone can achieve comfort in life by his own hand. Very seldom is it actually injustice... Its usually just bad judgement.
Sometimes it's also good judgment that the underpinnings changed on. Consider any number of "displaced" or "outsourced" or "offshored" positions.
Wouldn't everyone become a Dr., Lawyer, CEO, etc. if the choice was actually available to them?
I know for a fact I've tried to change my career field repeatedly. Every time I get enough $$$ to maybe take a shot... a downsizing, offshoring or some other event beyond my control has shot a hole in my planning.
Say what you want about, "Everything is a choice", but not *every choice* is available to *everyone*.
Otherwise we'd all choice to be young, rich and good looking, and actually be it. LOL!
Basically you speak like someone who's never been screwed by events beyond your control or people more powerful than yourself. Count your blessings.
What makes you think the rich owe you anything other than a pay check if you work for them. If somebody invests his savings and time into some sort of business and becomes wealthy, that's a good thing, it creates jobs.That's what trickle down is. To many people think they are entitled to a piece of the pie, when they haven't done anything to deserve it.
They did the actual work. They just got screwed out of it's ultimate payback by the entrenched system and how the leverage is set up.
Example, 4% unemployment has often been seen as the "correct" target. I.e. just enough elasticity in labor to prevent labor from being able to apply leverage to the top.
Now I'm not saying the rich neccesarily owe anyone anything, but the system as it has been engineered ensures that the little person can never really apply any pressure to the top.
From a darwinistic standpoint, that's just tough noogies, I suppose. But from the idealistic standpoints some profess, not exactly "fair".
(Yes I realize the definition of "fair" is something that many have debated over the eons and it's exact bounds, even as we speak aren't really settled.)
Bottom line is, somehow the few got over on the many. Yet we still hear the word "Democracy". If it really was a democracy, this couldn't happen. In fact it's a "democratic" Republic, which was designed from the word "GO" to ensure that the "Tyranny of the Masses" couldn't happen.
Basically that all the poor couldn't vote the assets of the rich away from them. So essentially one of the "checks" in "checks and balances" is a check against the number of votes the "masses (poor folks) hold.
No amount of arguing is going to change that fact. You can defend either side all you like, but that's the state of affairs at present.
The only real questions are, "Do we want or need to change this system?", if so, "How?" and I guess lastly, "Will it be peaceful or violient?"
The answers could range from, "Nah, it's fine as it is" all the way to "We need a violent overthrow like the American Revolution was".
As it is, I think the check and balances are such, and things aren't quite painful enough yet that folks want to revolt. But clearly a shift towards a more socialistic model appears to be happening in peoples minds.
Which is typical. When you're feeling rich, "Everything is fine, what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours". When you are feeling poor, it's more like, "The deck is stacked, this needs to change."
So how you feel about this issue probably really says more about how your particular train of events played out than any overarching view of right or wrong.
Teh free market allows anyone to actually have a chance at success. Otherwsie your born inot a class system. Without the free market it would be like it has been so much in the past that your born into your class in society. Lok at the socialist and communist soeciety of the elite and the peasnt mostly. Even those systems that have socialist programs;they are paid for by those who finance it thru the free market system.Look who the politicain are lookign to have finace the current health care poroposals;the free markiet people.The problem with many is they started out not working in school ;the they supposed that turning a screwdriver like the 19th century would pay the same after the third world got screwdrivers and robots could do teh same work 24 hours a day. When they heard it on the news as they were growing up they ignored it thinking they would be as advasnced for turning the screwdrivwer the correct way as thier father was.
Last edited by texdav; 10-09-2009 at 07:29 AM..
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