The Macedonia Debate...Let's hear your opinion... (death, compared, government)

[Zamir]

Originally Posted by harrymiafl

The term Macedonia is a cornerstone of greek mythological nationalism...

Like the term "Aryan" for German nazis...Imagine if Soviet Union used the term "Aryan" for a territory...

Nazis would go (even more ) nuts...

Respectfuly, Greece is in substance like ex-Yugoslavia.
Mix nations who did not last long in unity.
Greece as well has many nations. Turks, Albanians, Macedonians,
and many more. If Greek gov., denies them ethnic right of expretion
It to will fall apart. Greeks are not of one "Greek" nation.
Such does not exist in history, until modern times.
I wonder, where did Elleni disapeared, and their ancient Ellada.
Yes Greeks of today are cerfuly thought to think of themselves as
mithological Macedonians. But that can be shatered quickly with
truth. The most forbiden word in Greek modern language.

[Fred314X]

When you get right down to it, this really isn't a debate at all. Macedonia exists, whether or not Greece likes it. It's not as though some kind of public opinion poll was going to make them change the name of their country.

[Zamir]

Originally Posted by GregW

Remember Macedonia did not become part of Greece, or the other way around, without one helluva fight. I do not understand why some people develop Velcro grudges that last millennia. This is apparently one of them.

Why some people consider apropriate to judg Macedonians and
trow them under the bus.
Just because they are not powerfule?
Macedonians live all over the worls as do Greeks, yet Greek power
is more efectiv against Macedonians, then what USA represent.
Unless I am mistaken, and USA has policy of equal right? then I
can say to all Macedonians, not to wory.
Justice will be served.
Why are Greeks Velcro atached to Macedonian history to the extent of
grudg against them, is bejond my understanding.
Good question anyhow.

[petrovski]

Very clear and simple:

I am a Macedonian, I speak Macedonian, I live in Macedonia. Whoever has problems with it, please go to other planet ))

[Zamir]

Originally Posted by subsound

I think it's actually kind of funny that old wrongs and hurts started thousands of years ago by people no one has ever met, let alone been wronged themselves, still causes so much hate to continue as long as recorded history.

It's like people want to hate something, their lives are too boring otherwise, and find it conveniently in any conflict in their past.

Imagin somebody comes in your midst and takes all that is you.
You fight, but the new commers befrended another nation of
thives and murderers to kik you out and take all that represents
your past, present and future.
If you survive the unslaught, you now live in "borowed" country.
Your hate grows towards the inviders of your homeland with
every question your children press apone your mind and hearth
when they ask,"where are you from grandfather" and
can we go there?" But, you know you can not, because on your
documents states, proudly, that you are Macedonian, and
you know that Greece will not let you cross the border to see
your beloved homeland. Greece considers you as dengerous
individual, come to start "revolution" and awaken the conciousnes
of other Macedonians who were forsed by torture, to give up
their nationality. You can not even bow at the thomb ston of
your ancestors, because Greek governament uprooted them all.
I wonder where this hatred come from. Perhaps it is fear,
disalusion that UN and EU are hapless to write the wrong
done to Macedonians. And then is there anything alse to
ocupie Macedonian mind now days, when Greece in its
democratic "wisdom" denies the history and heritage and
nationality of Macedonians. All over the globe.
Macedonians can not hide anymore, so here is the cwestion.
What would you do, if you were in Macedonian shews.
Read Macedonian history and find out whats going on.
Its no use. Wikopedia or independant historian all lie.
As far as I understand its all Greek to me.

[MANGAS]

in bible (the amplified version) it say in daniel 8.21 the Grecian king and in brackets ALEXANDER THE GREAT. When saint paul came to the Roman colony of Macedonia he found GREEKS THERE IN THESSALONIKI AND BEREA MANY GREEKS WERE SAVED READ ACTS 17. SORRY TO SLAV FALSIFYERS OF HISTORY. THERE WERE NO SLAVS IN REGION NO BULGARS NO 'OVSKIS THEY CAME 800 YEARS LATER THEREFORE MACEDONIA IS GREEK ITS A GREEK NAME MEANING TALL . 'MACEDONIA' COULDNT BEAT ABUNCH OF ALBANIAN HILLBILLIES HOW CAN THEY SAY THEY CONQUERED THE WORLD ITS AN INSULT TO MY GREEK INTELLIGENCE.AN 18 YEAR OLD COUNTRY WEAKEST AND POOREST NEWEST MISFIT BIG MOUTH SNAKES THEY MAKE ME ANGRY.

[iPwn]

are the Slavic Macedonians actually descended from Alexander and Philip's people? i get the impression they're a totally different people but perhaps there is a connection?

[Peer79]

As an American who has studied classical antiquity extensively, particularly the Greek and Roman world, I would like to give some insight into this issue.

Simply put, in ancient times the Macedonians were culturally connected with the Hellenic world. They interacted with other Greek city states, they participated in the Olympic games, which was only reserved for Greeks. They are culturally connected to Greek heritage.

Many modern Slavic Macedonians seem to feel a need to state that modern Greeks are not "purely" descended from ancient Greeks. I personally, and academia in general, do not value this purity argument. The fact is there is no nationality that has remained "pure", including modern Slavic Macedonians. No modern historian values "purity", instead cultural, linguistic, and historical continuity are more pertinent. The Greeks do have the cultural and linguistic continuity; in addition to the historical identity. The Slavs entered the Balkan peninsula around the 5th century AD, far after the heyday of ancient Greece. This was during the end of the Roman empire, when numerous wandering tribes crossed Roman frontiers. Remember, Alexander the Great, who is the most noteworthy Macedonian, spread Greek culture culture and language, not any Slavic tongue or custom.

Another problem I see is the use of faulty genetic studies. For every internet study cited, I can find propose 10 more which cluster Greeks amongst Europeans. These genetic studies do not carry much weight amongst professional historians. Any sensible Greek would not dispute that modern Greeks are not exactly the same people as ancient Greeks. Modern Greeks even have some Slavic intermingling in bloodlines as well. I do not see why this is very important.

I also have difficulty understanding some of the comments made by some members of this board; as I suspect English is not their first language.

In summation, I do not personally care if modern Slavic groups insist on being called Macedonian. However, the insistence on denigrating Greeks and "proving" that they are descendants of ancient Macedonians is disingenuous. I find this akin to white Americans, living in the plains states, insisting on being called Sioux or Comanchee; and then trying to show that modern Sioux people are not "pure." What is the validity of such an argument?

[iPwn]

Originally Posted by lentzr

Important Note: The Macedonians of today are not the descendants of Ancient Macedonia (Alexander the Great's People). Macedonians today are a slavic people.

What if they're Slavicized Hellenistics?

[waguy101]

Bravo Petrovski you are the only one that has reasoning behind you. I too am a Petrovski and proud to be a Macedonian. The world has been duped by the Greek lies for far too long and now it has come back to haunt them. The only way they got into the EU was by fiddling the books as they have done with history. The Macedonians know who they are, it's the greeks that have no idea of their identity. But rest assured that all thier lies will be revealed in time and they will be made the fools of the world