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The act of suicide isn't usually a "cop out". The mind has to get to a pretty extreme stage at which a person decides to kill themselves. For someone suffering a lifelong mental illness, with no hope of a cure, I wouldn't call that a cop out. Until we learn to understand the chemistry of the brain better, why begrudge those who experience no joy and only fear, depression and anxiety the chance to simply "opt out", especially if they are alone in the world and will leave no one behind? A lot of people in that situation also do not wish to be burdens to society.
What part of "normal and functioning" escaped your interpretation of my post? I understand that there are people with severe mental issues. These are not the people I was referring to. I was referring to people who are suffering from some type of temporary setback, regardless of how permanent they, at the time, might see it being.
This group is the most dangerous, as they make irrational spontaneous decisions on a whim. Drugs and alcohol don't help the cause, either.
You are correct. I have been severely depressed my whole entire life. I have never been happy, nor ever will be. There is no treatment for it.
Exactly the way I felt, from early childhood into my mid / late 40's. . . I am sure that if the stigma of seeking treatment had been lessened, I would have done that sooner. When I finally did get up the courage to speak to a physician about it, all I said was, "I want to try Prozac". . . and to my surprise the answer was "no problem" here's your perscription. Well that stuff takes about 3 weeks to build up enough in your system to start working, but for me at least, it was difference of night to day. I had never beleived that people could actually be happy, not let the "downs" of everyday life really clobber them, etc.
I realize that I was one of the lucky ones, no shuffleing meds for years to find the right combo, no hospitilization, etc. I had already done a lot of the emotional work on my own, but the brain chemistry thing needed changing.
I sure do understand how it is, if that doesn't, cannot happen. I was at the point of decided to cease being. I only wish that all who suffer from depression could have a similar outcome.
I think I can offer great insight on this thread since I am mentally ill AND I want to die. I have tried to kill myself twice with sleeping pills. What I wound up with is thousands of dollars of hospital bills, and permanent kidney and liver damage that has resulted in constant pain. I am 34 and completely done with life. I knew I was done at 25, and as I predicted it would get worse from then on. It is only going to get much worse in the future if I keep on living. I have thought of shooting myself in the head, but then I have seen the suicide gone wrong programs on TV and that has always stopped me. I feel I have a right to go to a doctor, but of course it is illlegal in the USA. Also, for me it would not be selfish as both my parents have passed away.
Let's just say that you and I have a lot in common. Unlike others, you'll also understand that people who have walked in our shoes are not wallowing in self-pity, or looking for an easy way out. The fact is that I have never felt sorry for myself, nor do I have a "woe is me" attitude. It is simply a case of life hurting, a lot. Happiness is something that eludes me for the most part and most of the emotions I experience are those pertaining to sadness, fear, excess worry and anxiety or complete and utter disillusion with society as a whole (no self-pity and I've never asked anyone to feel remotely sorry for me).
Am I suicidal now? No....but I understand *why* some people simply choose to say "f*** it" and take their own lives. I think that if I were in a situation where no one needed me or depended on me, I might see suicide as a viable option for myself. I would certainly not sit back and judge someone for catching the proverbial bus and I do not see suicide as an act of selfishness, but an act of desperation.
I honestly believe that people *should* have the right to a painless death. Of course, those who can be treated should be treated and this should not apply to those suffering from situational depression, as agonizing as that is, in itself. Until we learn to understand the complexity of the human brain, we have to accept that many people simply cannot be cured and if they wish to end their suffering, they should be free to do so, in a painless manner. I'd be willing to bet that most people who do go ahead and kill themselves aren't doing it out of spite, selfishness or because they felt sorry for themselves. Some are simply just tired and if their lives were nothing but miserable existences devoid of happiness, why should we begrudge them the right to opt out?
What part of "normal and functioning" escaped your interpretation of my post? I understand that there are people with severe mental issues. These are not the people I was referring to. I was referring to people who are suffering from some type of temporary setback, regardless of how permanent they, at the time, might see it being.
This group is the most dangerous, as they make irrational spontaneous decisions on a whim. Drugs and alcohol don't help the cause, either.
Ok, well I agree with you there -- sorry for the confusion. However, some people believe that depression is just some sort of temporary disease to masquerade "laziness".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk
I feel I have a right to go to a doctor, but of course it is illlegal in the USA. Also, for me it would not be selfish as both my parents have passed away.
Trying to pose this in as neutral a manner as I am able:
Can you precisely enumerate why you believe you have the right to assistance from medical personnel?
Ok, I think my posts here would indicate that I in no way think anyone can force someone to stay alive, but there's a big difference between that and turning doctors into executioners.
If someone REALLY want to kill themselves there are a multitude of painless ways of going about it on your own, it's not that hard to do.
Go to a bum, ask where the drugdealers are, buy more than 120mg of morphine, hell, just to make sure you're not one of the high tolerance people, guy 1200mg, it's not like you have to worry about any debt. eat/inject it and wait for the magic to happen. Failing that, I hear bleeding oyt is fairly undramatic.
Put simply, if you REALLY want to take your life, there's ample opportunity to do so.
If the human prayed every day to not wake up the next morning (as was the case with a member of my family), yes. If the human expressed the wish (which dogs cannot do), yes.
No, it is absolute selfishness for a you to say that other people ought not be allowed to do something that you don't want to do or that offends you in some way.
Realistically, YOU are stopping them by forcing them to choose from a very limited menu of suicide options, all of which are extremely terrifying and messy. Will you let a suicidal person choose a method that causes no pain and makes no mess, surrounded by friends and family, with a physician attendant? Just peacefully go to sleep and never wake up? No? Then the answer to your question is that YOU are stopping them.
You could not know it yet, but it is very possible that some day you will be old and uncomfortable and depressed and feel that you are a burden on everyone else, bedridden and being watched 24/7, with nothing to look forward to except more pain and desperation, and you will want to just end it all. When you get there, remember your own words: Who is stopping you?
I am the one stopping me. Every day. I know that of which I speak.
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