The Monopoloy analogy. (generation, biased, education, teenage)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Fred314X

It will? And how do you know this for a fact? It's pretty obvious that you believe a return to previous attitudes is inevitable. But that's just your opinion. Or are you going to "prove" otherwise?

You are right and hopefully my opinion is wrong. However, looking at history there has always been an increase in intolerance when economic times worsen....as people compete for decreasing opportunities they often scapegoat immigrants, blacks and jews. Human natures ugliness has not mutated away. What was old will be new again....as soon as the reason for it returns.

[us66]

Maybe the OP is correct on some level, maybe not, but I never owned slaves, so why should I be penalized for the failings of my ancestors who did? I didn't benefit from it...I don't have a plantation house and land in my ancestral home state of Maryland...I don't have a million dollars in the bank. Racism is a problem in the USA...here in SE MI we're conscious of it nearly everything we do, everywhere we go, but the OP and all the rest of us, for that matter, need to realize that race isn't the problem anymore, now that there are so many legal remedies against racism.
Our problem now is class-based. Children of all races now often attend the same schools and occupy nearly identical socio-economical standings, whether poor or rich. Sure, you can say many black children attend bad schools, but so do many white children. This is not a new problem, and it is one that many people of all races have gotten themselves out of over the centuries in America. Look at the education of Abraham Lincoln for an example.

"Wealth and opportunity are not infinite, but it is also not statistic like a monopoly board. However, it an “it takes money to make money” and in an “It takes money to create wealth”, new opportunities are quickly consumed and controlled by those who have advantage. In other words, new opportunities get absorbed primarily by those with advantage which amounts to the fat getting fatter. Just because we are allowed to enter the game….late in the game…..does not mean we have an equal chance to win at the game.

"When you consider the poor economic challenge of coming into the game late, plus the psychological and geographic aftermath, plus current racism and ignorance staked against a people....one should understand that things are not as easy as they appear to be from the outside looking in."

This is also not a racial problem (maybe it was a very long time ago), but this is a class problem. Black or white, it's all about who you know. I visited the Hamptons on Long Island for a funeral last year and I read a book sitting on a coffee table; I believe it was entitled "The Blue Book of the Hamptons" or something like it. Know those people, get on their good side, get in with them, you've got it made. Read something like the White Pages for the city of Detroit (or most of the suburban ones as well), you probably won't meet the right people for doing anything better than becoming a fry cook.

[aquamaster]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Are Cornell West, Michael Eric Dyson, Tavis Smiley or any other outspoken black individual “failures”? This ideal that realizing the cause of the black socioeconomic state of inequality HURTS blacks is a diabolical myth perpetrated by people who really do not want it known that such is the greatest ingredients to our rise. This is why afrocentric schools do so much better than Eurocentric schools, when it comes to improving the performance of black kids. You can berate consciousness all you want and you can try to equate black conciseness, erroneously, to white racism all you want. This train done left the track.

I read that about 50% of those less than 4 years old in this country are minorities. Based upon those trends, I think whites have better see the handwriting on the wall.

Who cares about what the make up of those less than 4 years old is? Only you and other not-yet-winners who appear to want an excuse rather than a successful life. You are infatuated with the irrelevant, and can't understand why your wheels are spinning the tread of with no progress being made.

[aquamaster]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Are Cornell West, Michael Eric Dyson, Tavis Smiley or any other outspoken black individual “failures”? This ideal that realizing the cause of the black socioeconomic state of inequality HURTS blacks is a diabolical myth perpetrated by people who really do not want it known that such is the greatest ingredients to our rise. This is why afrocentric schools do so much better than Eurocentric schools, when it comes to improving the performance of black kids. You can berate consciousness all you want and you can try to equate black conciseness, erroneously, to white racism all you want. This train done left the track.

I read that about 50% of those less than 4 years old in this country are minorities. Based upon those trends, I think whites have better see the handwriting on the wall.

For the record, I intended to say "all is hopeless"

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by us66

Maybe the OP is correct on some level, maybe not, but I never owned slaves, 1.) so why should I be penalized for the failings of my ancestors who did? I didn't benefit from it...I don't have a plantation house and land in my ancestral home state of Maryland...I don't have a million dollars in the bank. 2.) Racism is a problem in the USA...here in SE MI we're conscious of it nearly everything we do, everywhere we go, but the OP and all the rest of us, for that matter, need to realize that race isn't the problem anymore, now that there are so many legal remedies against racism.
3.) Our problem now is class-based. Children of all races now often attend the same schools and occupy nearly identical socio-economical standings, whether poor or rich. Sure, you can say many black children attend bad schools, but so do many white children. This is not a new problem, and it is one that many people of all races have gotten themselves out of over the centuries in America. Look at the education of Abraham Lincoln for an example.

"Wealth and opportunity are not infinite, but it is also not statistic like a monopoly board. However, it an “it takes money to make money” and in an “It takes money to create wealth”, new opportunities are quickly consumed and controlled by those who have advantage. In other words, new opportunities get absorbed primarily by those with advantage which amounts to the fat getting fatter. Just because we are allowed to enter the game….late in the game…..does not mean we have an equal chance to win at the game.

"When you consider the poor economic challenge of coming into the game late, plus the psychological and geographic aftermath, plus current racism and ignorance staked against a people....one should understand that things are not as easy as they appear to be from the outside looking in."

4.) This is also not a racial problem (maybe it was a very long time ago), but this is a class problem. Black or white, it's all about who you know. I visited the Hamptons on Long Island for a funeral last year and I read a book sitting on a coffee table; I believe it was entitled "The Blue Book of the Hamptons" or something like it. Know those people, get on their good side, get in with them, you've got it made. Read something like the White Pages for the city of Detroit (or most of the suburban ones as well), you probably won't meet the right people for doing anything better than becoming a fry cook.

1) How are you penalized by an Afrocentric school?

2) How can you say on one hand that it is such a problem and then state that its really not a problem? Are there legal remedies that stop crime? When has making something illegal eradicated the behavior? You will not have ANYTHING to say about this...you will just continue on with your beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. Ignorance is a big part of racism...and you are demonstrating ignorance. My question is WHY don't you know what is common knowlege to me?

3) No....the problem with poor whites is class based ONLY. The problem with blacks is based upon BOTH race and class.

4) That is what I noted in the OP. I said ignoring the psychological and the geographical and only focusing on the economical.......this is the challenge. This analogy just looks at it from a class perspective and the challenges from class...but blacks have race impediments on top of class impediment so the challenge is even worse. For example, people think blacks are generally lazier, more violent and less qualified than whites. Thus, given that most employers are white....there is a built in bias against blacks that has nothing to do with class....and everything to do with being black.

[hnsq]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The issue really is not conscerning racism of today, which is alive and well, but rather, the consquence of past racism. Impact transcends time and space. The ramifications of actions reverberate beyond the time and space of the original act. That is simply how nature works.

More importantly, however, is that as this nation descends from its economic zenith...the nation will move backwards towards the 60's in attitudes again. The reason is that racism and oppression has always been rooted in economics.

I disagree completely. Racism only exists in the minds of people like you. I am white and grew up in a very white community. My parents never once mentioned race. When I got out on my own I moved to a city with a lot of racial diversity and race never crossed my mind. I didn't realize racism was still an issue until black people around me started complaining. I hear more racist comments from blacks than whites on a daily basis. Race is used as an excuse to not take personal responsibility in problems.

Racism is now rooted in the minds of people who refuse to realize that no one cares what color your skin is any more. Racism is a thing of the past. Please move past it and stop bringing it up. It is a non-issue today.

[eevee]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

One of the arguments often lamented against blacks, to discredit that past or present racism hinders us today, is the claim and fact that blacks, by law, now have access to the same opportunities that whites have access to. This is nominally true, of coruse, but it does not negate the ramifications of past and present racism.


The best way to demonstrate the economic impact upon blacks, ignoring the psychological and geographical (segregation) that also are aftermaths, is through the analogy of the game of monopoly. Try an experiment. Start a game of monopoly and let it go on for a good hour or so, and then let a new player into the game after it has been well under way. Does the fact that the new entrant to the game, who has all the rights to opportunities and rules that apply equally, mean that they are no longer disadvantaged? Equal opportunity does not mean equal chance at opportunity.


Wealth and opportunity are not infinite, but it is also not statistic like a monopoly board. However, it an “it takes money to make money” and in an “It takes money to create wealth”, new opportunities are quickly consumed and controlled by those who have advantage. In other words, new opportunities get absorbed primarily by those with advantage which amounts to the fat getting fatter. Just because we are allowed to enter the game….late in the game…..does not mean we have an equal chance to win at the game.

When you consider the poor economic challenge of coming into the game late, plus the psychological and geographic aftermath, plus current racism and ignorance staked against a people....one should understand that things are not as easy as they appear to be from the outside looking in.

so using this analogy (which, BTW, isn't the best), what should blacks do?

should blacks not join the game at all and sit on the sidelines and wait for the game to end and for a new game to start over on equal footing? ha, good luck w/ that! Monopoly is damn near a never ending game, and waiting for things to start off anew on equal footing is futile in real life. real life is not a game you can join in later. history is not going to reset itself to a point where people of all races can start on equal footing.

should blacks join in the game but whine and complain about it all throughout the game? I've played Monopoly games where, even an hour in, Boardwalk and Park Place are still up for grabs. I would play w/ my eyes on those prizes. it is a game of chance after all, chance w/ a bit of common sense involved. players who may have bought up properties w/in the first 20 minutes of the game may end up bankrupted. get a perceived head start doesn't always guarantee long term success and starting out later doesn't guarantee failure. look at all the people who immigrate to this country w/ barely a lick of English yet end up succeeding at the "American Dream" faster than people who've lived in this country for generations

if you want to equate life as being a game, get in and play the game to win, or shut up and sit on the sidelines and stop whining out of perceived disadvantages. even the Detroit Lions must go out there to win, right? (note: sports analogies are not my forte!). go into a game w/ a defeatist attitude and don't be surprised when you are in fact defeated.

ETA: to further elaborate on my second point, the idea that wealth and opportunity is some how finite is wrong. again, how to explain immigrants that come into this country (basically, they're coming in late in the game) who end up succeeding? example, there are a lot of Arab Americans around my area that own 7-11 franchises. these people are probably fairly recent arrivals to this country, compared to some black Americans here. yet they manage to own business and thrive, something that is hard for the majority of blacks to accomplish. yeah, yeah, you may say some of these people came to the country w/ some wealth (a point I'd disagree w/, those cabbies aren't exactly sheiks), and yes, there's a history of blacks having issues securing loans due to racism (I'll admit to this, but only to a point, considering that there ARE many successful black owned businesses out there), but the fact of the matter is that many immigrants new to this country do find success that some people who've been in the USA for generations (people of all races, mind you) fail to grasp at. the reasons for this are multiple, but part of it could be explained by a defeatist attitude some of these people have, an attitude that they can't beat the person that's in the lead, so why try. it's not always about "beating" someone. I'm not trying to gain more wealth than Bill Gates or more properties than Donald Trump. I don't need to do so to prove I've "won", unlike in an actual game. But I'll be damned if I bow out of the game w/ nothing to show for it besides a history of bad attitudes and complaints.

[janman345]

Im white and I dont control massive amounts of wealth so how does that fit into your complaining.

[claud605]

Originally Posted by jtur88

An hour after Monopoly starts, the finite number of properties have already been purchased and improved. The newcomer can only go around the board and pay rents, with nothing remaining to invest in.

hmmmmmmm......think about what you're saying here 88!!

[modsquad81]

The monopoly analogy doesn't work, if I come into the game with something called an "airplane" or nuclear energy I win, NO matter when I enter. The presumption that wealth is finite is simple minded. The OP is more akin to a person who enjoys smelling their own farts.