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First, what you linked was a paid marketing event put on by Nissan to promote their version of events. They provided only what they wanted reported. Even with that the blogger still wasn't keen on all they were told.
Second, the battery pack is designed to retain a certain level after 10 years, but that was based on the use and recharging cycle based on the 100 miles per charge. Since the average US driver will only get from 45 to 75 miles per charge, the recharging will happen more often lowering battery life.
Third, since the average distance per charge is not 100 miles but 25-50% less, many will resort to Level III charging station while traveling or using Level I charging because its avaialbe everywhere, both which reduces the life of the battery. The reported life span of battery pack is based on Level II charging.
Fourth, even at 80% retention, the miles per charge at its best would drop to 80. But what if your conditions were at 60 when new, that means you are reducing your range from 60 miles per charge to 48 miles per charge. Within another year or so, you may be able to drive to the corner bus stop before the battery needs recharging.
Fifth, the average person drives between 14,000 to 18,000 miles per year. At the low end you would max out the warranty based on miles before you reach the years. Its miles or years. If they gave a 20 year warranty but still kept the miles at 100,000, odds are all the batteries will be out of waranty at about 8 years anyway.
You can be a good American and belive the marketing the company puts out, or you can be a good consumer and think on your own. Thats up to you.
First, what you linked was a paid marketing event put on by Nissan to promote their version of events. They provided only what they wanted reported. Even with that the blogger still wasn't keen on all they were told.
Second, the battery pack is designed to retain a certain level after 10 years, but that was based on the use and recharging cycle based on the 100 miles per charge. Since the average US driver will only get from 45 to 75 miles per charge, the recharging will happen more often lowering battery life.
Third, since the average distance per charge is not 100 miles but 25-50% less, many will resort to Level III charging station while traveling or using Level I charging because its avaialbe everywhere, both which reduces the life of the battery. The reported life span of battery pack is based on Level II charging.
Fourth, even at 80% retention, the miles per charge at its best would drop to 80. But what if your conditions were at 60 when new, that means you are reducing your range from 60 miles per charge to 48 miles per charge. Within another year or so, you may be able to drive to the corner bus stop before the battery needs recharging.
Fifth, the average person drives between 14,000 to 18,000 miles per year. At the low end you would max out the warranty based on miles before you reach the years. Its miles or years. If they gave a 20 year warranty but still kept the miles at 100,000, odds are all the batteries will be out of waranty at about 8 years anyway.
You can be a good American and belive the marketing the company puts out, or you can be a good consumer and think on your own. Thats up to you.
Actually according to FHWA the average American drives 13,476 miles a year (Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group) which means they will get 7.42 years out of this warranty before they hit 100k. If the battery lasts a few years longer than that I consider that an okay deal given how much fuel savings there will be. I calculate there will be $971/year savings versus a Nissan Versa ($1532 vs. $561 annually). That equals $7,768 in fuel savings over 8 years.
And did I mention there is no transmission to fail, no exhaust system to rust, no conventional emissions equipment to give you check engine lights, no fuel injection to clog up, and no motor oil to replace.
I (almost) feel sorry for you that you have to drive so much and waste all that money and time. I moved closer to work and only put on 5.5k a year...........So no new car of any kind for me but this car will fit the bill of many for either their primary or secondary vehicle.
Actually according to FHWA the average American drives 13,476 miles a year (Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group) which means they will get 7.42 years out of this warranty before they hit 100k. If the battery lasts a few years longer than that I consider that an okay deal given how much fuel savings there will be. I calculate there will be $971/year savings versus a Nissan Versa ($1532 vs. $561 annually). That equals $7,768 in fuel savings over 8 years.
And did I mention there is no transmission to fail, no exhaust system to rust, no conventional emissions equipment to give you check engine lights, no fuel injection to clog up, and no motor oil to replace.
I (almost) feel sorry for you that you have to drive so much and waste all that money and time. I moved closer to work and only put on 5.5k a year...........So no new car of any kind for me but this car will fit the bill of many for either their primary or secondary vehicle.
Ok, while you are desperately ignoring all the details about the issue brought up to do your creative math, let me ask you one question.
What will be the savings at 300k miles? *chuckle*
Also, care to show your work to the rest of your class concerning your calculations above there? You know, so we can see what you are using to make your estimates and what you are... omitting?
Actually according to FHWA the average American drives 13,476 miles a year (Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group) which means they will get 7.42 years out of this warranty before they hit 100k. If the battery lasts a few years longer than that I consider that an okay deal given how much fuel savings there will be. I calculate there will be $971/year savings versus a Nissan Versa ($1532 vs. $561 annually). That equals $7,768 in fuel savings over 8 years.
And did I mention there is no transmission to fail, no exhaust system to rust, no conventional emissions equipment to give you check engine lights, no fuel injection to clog up, and no motor oil to replace.
I (almost) feel sorry for you that you have to drive so much and waste all that money and time. I moved closer to work and only put on 5.5k a year...........So no new car of any kind for me but this car will fit the bill of many for either their primary or secondary vehicle.
So this is only about saving money and the "GREEN" part is just you saving money not that the car is green in anyway.
Like I said, you can be a good american and jump to the pied piper's marketing, or you can be a good consumer and THINK on your own.
As for my commute, it was my decision to live so far away from work to have the land and life I want. But since I get paid enough that $8 a gallon for gas wouldn't mean anything to me, it really is a matter of personal choice. If I want to drive a F-350 Superduty and pay $100 in gas each way, that's my choice just like I can drive a Yaris and pay only $18 in gasoline. The rewards of my pay enables me to live where I want and how I want. I don;t have to worry about the cost of installing solar since I can afford to do it whenever I please. I don't have to worry about recycling because I can afford to buy green products regardless of the higher cost. The distance I travel to work is nothing compared to visiting foreign countries every week and instead of watching the travel channel or the Food network to get exposed to diffrent cultures, i go to work and I live what you may only get from a TV show.
If I want a Nissan Leaf, I can buy it cash due to the pay I get from my long gas intensive commute and don't have to depend on tax credits. Spending a few extra thousnd in ten years to live the life I have is why i do it. But if all you have to argue your point is my commute and the time I spend traveling, you really don;t have much, do you?
So this is only about saving money and the "GREEN" part is just you saving money not that the car is green in anyway.
Like I said, you can be a good american and jump to the pied piper's marketing, or you can be a good consumer and THINK on your own.
As for my commute, it was my decision to live so far away from work to have the land and life I want. But since I get paid enough that $8 a gallon for gas wouldn't mean anything to me, it really is a matter of personal choice. If I want to drive a F-350 Superduty and pay $100 in gas each way, that's my choice just like I can drive a Yaris and pay only $18 in gasoline. The rewards of my pay enables me to live where I want and how I want. I don;t have to worry about the cost of installing solar since I can afford to do it whenever I please. I don't have to worry about recycling because I can afford to buy green products regardless of the higher cost. The distance I travel to work is nothing compared to visiting foreign countries every week and instead of watching the travel channel or the Food network to get exposed to diffrent cultures, i go to work and I live what you may only get from a TV show.
If I want a Nissan Leaf, I can buy it cash due to the pay I get from my long gas intensive commute and don't have to depend on tax credits. Spending a few extra thousnd in ten years to live the life I have is why i do it. But if all you have to argue your point is my commute and the time I spend traveling, you really don;t have much, do you?
Actually saving money on fuel goes hand in hand with being green. It's a win-win proposition. Yes you have the right to live where you want and drive what you want but there are many out there who bellyache when gas prices go up; there are many out there who don't think they have anything to do with the oil spill in the gulf when it reality it is all of our demand for resources that promotes such dangerous methods of extraction.
Your recycling comment vs. green products makes no sense. The distance you travel to work and back entails more energy use than the average citizen of the world uses for all of their consumption; you just happen to live in a very wasteful country so comparing yourself to the Homer Simpson next door you feel pretty good.
And your use of fossil fuels is subsidized through taxes or in other words you are paying an artificially low price for fuel due to all of this (from Wiki):
Moreover, Research by the Environmental Law Institute[8]showed that from 2002 to 2008, the U.S. government provided about $72 billion in fossil fuel subsidies compared to $29 billion for renewables.
Those subsidized prices encourage you and others to use more and waste more to the detriment of our national security, economic well-being(e.g. the trade deficit due to oil imports) and the environment(e.g. ozone action days and gulf spills).
And I don't follow any pied pipers so stop being so condescending. I have been reading up on EV and hybrids for years via Automobile magazine, Autoblog, WSJ, etc. One thing I can see for sure is that battery technology is advancing much faster than ICE technology. If the costs of batteries goes down as the power and capacity goes up it will be only a matter of time before ICEs become the minority.
Ok, while you are desperately ignoring all the details about the issue brought up to do your creative math, let me ask you one question.
What will be the savings at 300k miles? *chuckle*
Also, care to show your work to the rest of your class concerning your calculations above there? You know, so we can see what you are using to make your estimates and what you are... omitting?
I have no idea what the savings will be in 300k for total operating costs because in fact no one really knows. There are just too many variables.
Anyway the annual fuel cost for the Leaf come from the mandatory window sticker here:
For the Versa I pulled up fueleconomy.gov for annual fuel costs.
You have no idea? We know the warranty is only for a 100k miles. Batteries are volatile things, and these types of batteries are extremely sensitive (read up on the history of laptop batteries and what is "claimed" versus what actually is). It would not be unreasonable to see them failing or becoming impractical in use very close past the 100k limit (maybe even before depending on location and climate). Lets be generous though and and say that by some stroke of miracle, you are able to get 150k out of one (though very unlikely as ideal would likely be around 110k).
So, in 300k miles, you will have at the least replaced the battery pack once, likely twice. that's a minimum of 20-48 thousand dollars expense which not avoidable by any proper maintenance or care.
You won't be spending that on a gas powered vehicle unless you have a lemon situation, and even then... the cost will be nowhere near that if it does have some major issues.
The point is, the leaf is not a vehicle designed for longevity, it is one specifically designed for a very narrow goal, which is to reduce or eliminate gas consumption. Because of this, cost will not be a main concern and due to the lack of attention to the overall details of the technology, as some have stated, the result is actually more waste than a gas powered vehicle due to the nature and limitations of this product. Though because the goal is simply to move away from petroleum, all attention to the other deficiencies are ignored resulting in yet another poor product that overall serves no purpose other than to attend to a failed ideal through the marketing of a premature or failed technology.
As for your estimates, they do not take into account energy prices which are increasing dramatically in some states (California is around .40 kwh in some places and rising) which ultimately results in a higher cost to operate these vehicles than a gas powered one.
I have seen this sort of scam when I lived in California. The "energy conservation" is promoted above all else and the details of the expense and practical use is pushed to the side as the devil is in the details.
Add up all the costs completely and this vehicle is a money pit.
FWIW, my "6 hour" lithium ion laptop battery ($155.00 battery at Amazon.com), is one year old and is fully dissipated in 45 minutes. Generally, the promises made to me by Dell are a little more reliable than what the car people claim.
What is the availability of lithium manganese oxide anyway? Did I notice a lithium manganese oxide mine on the way to work today? I don't think so. Let's guess which terrorist country owns all the raw materials. Hmmmmm?
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