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Let me be clear Verybadgnome. I honestly don't care what you choose to drive or how you choose to live. This is your freedom to decide as you wish and I say more power to ya for your choice, but...
Don't expect me to buy into the fad and hype or to throw out practical sense and frugality to serve some emotional ideal.
FWIW, my "6 hour" lithium ion laptop battery ($155.00 battery at Amazon.com), is one year old and is fully dissipated in 45 minutes. Generally, the promises made to me by Dell are a little more reliable than what the car people claim.
What is the availability of lithium manganese oxide anyway? Did I notice a lithium manganese oxide mine on the way to work today? I don't think so. Let's guess which terrorist country owns all the raw materials. Hmmmmm?
Hmmmm. Turns out this may be more of a problem than first assumed:
FWIW, my "6 hour" lithium ion laptop battery ($155.00 battery at Amazon.com), is one year old and is fully dissipated in 45 minutes. Generally, the promises made to me by Dell are a little more reliable than what the car people claim.
What is the availability of lithium manganese oxide anyway? Did I notice a lithium manganese oxide mine on the way to work today? I don't think so. Let's guess which terrorist country owns all the raw materials. Hmmmmm?
I think this is the big issue. I have read in the past, that hybrid vehicle production has been limited by battery availability.
How many of these 8-10 year batteries are in a car?
How many cars are on the road today?
Divide that number by 10 and you get a very optimistic number of batteries needed every year to get my expedition and grand prix off the road. Can we please make a full size vehicle too? No way I would even consider that car with my 9 year old already over 4' 8" tall and 95lbs.
I think this is the big issue. I have read in the past, that hybrid vehicle production has been limited by battery availability.
How many of these 8-10 year batteries are in a car?
How many cars are on the road today?
Divide that number by 10 and you get a very optimistic number of batteries needed every year to get my expedition and grand prix off the road. Can we please make a full size vehicle too? No way I would even consider that car with my 9 year old already over 4' 8" tall and 95lbs.
Its the law of unintended consequences at work. Top down planning for consumer goods like cars and food and stuff simply does not work. Statists cannot accept that and continue to put us all through the expensive experiment over and over. CF is another great example. Replace cheap good working technology (incandescent lighting) with expensive technology that has potentially catastrophic environmental consequences (mercury poisoning) in order to solve a perceived problem (electric consumption). How about just letting electricity double in cost and then people will consume less.
the concern over the minute level of mercury in CFLs (which are easy to dispose of safely) is a fear tactic...why people use it, i'm not sure. LEDs are the better option though. CFLs were a bridge to LEDs.
i take all my CFLs to home depot, where they recycle them. except, i have only thrown away a handful of them since i started buying them 5 years ago!
as for the leaf...battery technology will improve. this is the first mainstream electric vehicle (even though they've existed for over 100 years). advances will happen quickly and dramatically.
Before Cleanup
. Have people and pets leave the room, and avoid the breakage area on the way out.
. Open a window or door to the outdoors and leave the room for 5-10 minutes.
. Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning (H&AC) system, if you have one.
. Collect materials you will need to clean up the broken bulb:
o Stiff paper or cardboard
o Sticky tape (e.g., duct tape)
o Damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes (for hard surfaces)
o Glass jar with a metal lid (such as a canning jar) or a sealable plastic bag(s)
CLEANUP AND DISPOSAL OVERVIEW
The most important steps to reduce exposure to mercury vapor from a broken bulb are:
1. Before cleanup
a. Have people and pets leave the room.
b. Air out the room for 5-10 minutes by opening a window or door to the outdoor
environment.
c. Shut off the central forced air heating/air conditioning (H&AC) system, if you have one.
d. Collect materials needed to clean up broken bulb.
2. During cleanup
a. Be thorough in collecting broken glass and visible powder.
b. Place cleanup materials in a sealable container.
3. After cleanup
a. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials outdoors in a trash container or
protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Avoid leaving any bulb
fragments or cleanup materials indoors.
b. For several hours, continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the
H&AC system shut off.
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency | December 1, 2010
2 of 3
Cleanup Steps for Hard Surfaces
. Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and
paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag.
(NOTE: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s)
from the home after cleanup.)
. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. Place
the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag.
. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels in the glass jar
or plastic bag.
. Vacuuming of hard surfaces during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all
other cleanup steps have been taken. [NOTE: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercurycontaining
powder or mercury vapor, although available information on this problem is limited.] If
vacuuming is needed to ensure removal of all broken glass, keep the following tips in mind:
o Keep a window or door to the outdoors open;
o Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and
o Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris,
and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag.
. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a
trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly.
o Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some
states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local
recycling center.
. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing bulb debris
and cleanup materials.
. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as
practical, for several hours.
Cleanup Steps for Carpeting or Rugs
. Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and
paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag.
(NOTE: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s)
from the home after cleanup.)
. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. Place
the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag.
. Vacuuming of carpeting or rugs during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after
all other cleanup steps have been taken. [NOTE: It is possible that vacuuming could spread mercurycontaining
powder or mercury vapor, although available information on this problem is limited.] If
vacuuming is needed to ensure removal of all broken glass, keep the following tips in mind:
o Keep a window or door to the outdoors open;
o Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available, and
o Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris,
and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag.
. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a
trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly.
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency | December 1, 2010
3 of 3
o Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some
states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local
recycling center.
. Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing bulb debris
and cleanup materials.
. Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as
practical, for several hours.
Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rugs: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming
. The next several times you vacuum the rug or carpet, shut off the H&AC system if you have one, close
the doors to other rooms, and open a window or door to the outside before vacuuming. Change the
vacuum bag after each use in this area.
. After vacuuming is completed, keep the H&AC system shut off and the window or door to the outside
open, as practical, for several hours.
Its the law of unintended consequences at work. Top down planning for consumer goods like cars and food and stuff simply does not work. Statists cannot accept that and continue to put us all through the expensive experiment over and over. CF is another great example. Replace cheap good working technology (incandescent lighting) with expensive technology that has potentially catastrophic environmental consequences (mercury poisoning) in order to solve a perceived problem (electric consumption). How about just letting electricity double in cost and then people will consume less.
of course!!! Silly me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
the concern over the minute level of mercury in CFLs (which are easy to dispose of safely) is a fear tactic...why people use it, i'm not sure. LEDs are the better option though. CFLs were a bridge to LEDs.
i take all my CFLs to home depot, where they recycle them. except, i have only thrown away a handful of them since i started buying them 5 years ago!
as for the leaf...battery technology will improve. this is the first mainstream electric vehicle (even though they've existed for over 100 years). advances will happen quickly and dramatically.
ummm, my biggest problem with cfl's is that they are designed to be left on for maximum life expectancy. For instance, we use one in the cat's closet with her food/ litter box, etc because that light never gets turned off. Light bulb lasted over 4 years.
I tried them in other areas, like living room, bedroom, outside and they burned out usually faster than the old bulbs. Why???
1. They don't tolerate any changes to the current. The littlest surge will blow them.
2. The more you turn them on and off, the faster they die. Considering the cost difference, that makes them uneconomical
3. They don't like weather changes. Changes in temperature or humidity kill them rapidly.
As far as battery technology. Aren't we using pretty much the same batteries in the priuses that we always have??? Shouldn't the popularity of that car already have led to innovation???
you are right. they use more energy being turned on than any other point, so leaving them on doesn't use much. and turning them on and off many times does reduce the life in some style bulbs. but i have rooms where i cycle on and off frequently, and i have bulbs that are 4+ years old.
i had one outside, it burned out quickly, in a few months. i think some brands are absolute junk, and i'm learning.
i've had no issues with surges so i'm not sure about that. also, they've been used in office buildings for a long time...my dad's building has surges all the time...no issues.
temperature changes doesn't kill them, they just take longer to heat up in the cold.
as for wilson's alarmist post....one light bulb breaking is a simple cleanup. there's not enough mercury in there to warrant that. yes, open the windows. sure, use gloves. but then...don't ever eat any fish again. you get exposed to the same amount of mercury in countless other places.
as for wilson's alarmist post....one light bulb breaking is a simple cleanup. there's not enough mercury in there to warrant that. yes, open the windows. sure, use gloves. but then...don't ever eat any fish again. you get exposed to the same amount of mercury in countless other places.
Don't blame me, that's the EPA talking.
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