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Driving is mostly "local" for most people, the size of the country is only a factor for the few who travel long distances regularly. Cheap fuel has allowed Americans to spread out and build distant suburbs like few if any other countries (notably Europe), that's pretty well documented, that's why we use more fuel - in this case we know which came first (chicken vs the egg). We typically drive over a larger area/radius as a result, size of the country has little to do with it.
If your argument holds true, how do you explain?
# 23 United States: 68.672 bbl/day per 1,000 people
# 144 China: 5.733 bbl/day per 1,000 people
Oh, and BTW, China is still classified as a third world country...
You might want to check that again. But don't look online, China as a third world country probably predates the internet.
But I won't argue with you since you can't even acknowledge that most driving is around the city/metro/region people live in and not between other city/metro/regions for the most part. You're really going to cling to land area as a primary determinant?
The feds are mandating lower sulfur for gas.
Diesel emissions have been dealt with.
Cars are getting better mileage.
All result in a cleaner a environment.
A tax will not clean or keep the environment clean.
When fuel costs go up folks remove emission equipment to get better millage.
Consumption bbl oil/yr per capita
USA 21.8
Germany 10.7
France 10.5
UK 9.5
Italy 8.9
Yes, the data:
GDP pick a scale. Lower number is a higher ranking (it takes energy to produce something including traveling to and from where work is performed)
Sources 1st# ranking=World Bank 2nd#=IMF, 3rd# CIA World Fact Book 4th#=Penn World table. Notice how they all correlate in general ranking (just in case the conspiracy nuts pick on the CIA rankings)
USA 6,7,8 or 9
Germany 17, 17, 19 or 20
France 23, 24, 27 or 23
UK 22,22,24 or 18
Italy 25,29,32 or 27
Yes, there seems to be a correlation to the amount of fuels used to GDP. There is more production going on in the USA. Now to add more data since you brought it up and distances required for travel directly correlate to fuel expended...
Then lets take land mass (in square kilometers) since getting to point B from point A takes fuel:
USA 9,629,091
Germany 357,021
France 547,030
UK 244,820 (Including Ireland)
Italy 301,230
Notice anything? I bet not so let me help. The USA is over 6 and 1/2 times the land mass of all those countries you listed combined. So I guess in your book, someone traveling from New York to LA has no bearing on the fuel consumption rates.
This other countries listed have the public transit system so touted by data manipulators because they are small countries and none of them could even dream about building the infrastructure necessary to replicate their systems to cover the populated areas of the USA.
Then lets talk about more data, population density per square whatever you want. The closer people live to each other and their production centers (work) the less fuel they expend getting from point a to point b. Somehow that rarely comes up when manipulating data to fit arguments. Funny how that works.
Back to the point though, you can't compare per capita fuel consumption unless you also compare GDP, lad mass and other factors related to the requirements to use fuel.
The Europeans tax fuel so high because they use it as one important form of revenue generation, not because of any social awareness or higher enlightenment. Europeans tax fuel so much because they can.
Also, not using gasoline is not the same as using it efficiently. When the driver in those Euro countries drives down the road at higher rates of speed, they use more gasoline than the driver in the USA driving quite a bit slower. You completely discount distance and quite disingenuously speak to only one aspect of gasoline consumption, ignoring all others because you couldn't make your point had you considered them.
I'd be very interested to see your numbers that show gasoline consumed by the people in those Euro countries for miles driven in gasoline fuel vehicles. Not diesel, not electric, not public transit but gasoline fueled car and trucks. Not per capita but per a one to one relationship and then averaged for actual users and gasoline. I doubt we'll see that number but lets see how it goes. News for you, those big V8s in Mercedes and BMWs use fuel there just like they do here, drive faster, use more fuel. Then an add how many people actually have cars. Suddenly all your data goes right out the window.
Should we want to continue with the nonsense about the USA using more fuel, especially gasoline vs Europeans using fuel, why not compare Germany, the UK, France and Italy with countries like Niue, Tonga, Samoa or Chad? Why not indeed. Because it doesn't fit does it?
How about a nail in the coffin though? How easy it is to use individual countries in comparison when all of those countries are the size of some individual states in the USA? Yes, lets take the European Union and then compare.
USA is ranked #1 and...drum roll...the EU is ranked #2. What a surprise.
That should take care of all the data and the less than intellectually honest arguments about the USA using more gasoline than everyone else.
Last edited by Mack Knife; 04-01-2013 at 01:17 PM..
Most driving is by people just driving around with no real place to go, no real need to be there. They're just driving around for driving around.
No, most people are driving to and/or from somewhere they need to go. There are very few "Sunday" drivers in this day and age. On the other hand, I have noticed there are some people who post on the Internet with no real substance to add, no real point to make. They're just posting around for posting around.
GDP pick a scale. Lower number is a higher ranking (it takes energy to produce something including traveling to and from where work is performed)
Sources 1st# ranking=World Bank 2nd#=IMF, 3rd# CIA World Fact Book 4th#=Penn World table. Notice how they all correlate in general ranking (just in case the conspiracy nuts pick on the CIA rankings)
USA 6,7,8 or 9
Germany 17, 17, 19 or 20
France 23, 24, 27 or 23
UK 22,22,24 or 18
Italy 25,29,32 or 27
Yes, there seems to be a correlation to the amount of fuels used to GDP. There is more production going on in the USA. Now to add more data since you brought it up and distances required for travel directly correlate to fuel expended...
Then lets take land mass (in square kilometers) since getting to point B from point A takes fuel:
USA 9,629,091
Germany 357,021
France 547,030
UK 244,820 (Including Ireland)
Italy 301,230
Notice anything? I bet not so let me help. The USA is over 6 and 1/2 times the land mass of all those countries you listed combined. So I guess in your book, someone traveling from New York to LA has no bearing on the fuel consumption rates.
This other countries listed have the public transit system so touted by data manipulators because they are small countries and none of them could even dream about building the infrastructure necessary to replicate their systems to cover the populated areas of the USA.
Then lets talk about more data, population density per square whatever you want. The closer people live to each other and their production centers (work) the less fuel they expend getting from point a to point b. Somehow that rarely comes up when manipulating data to fit arguments. Funny how that works.
Back to the point though, you can't compare per capita fuel consumption unless you also compare GDP, lad mass and other factors related to the requirements to use fuel.
The Europeans tax fuel so high because they use it as one important form of revenue generation, not because of any social awareness or higher enlightenment. Europeans tax fuel so much because they can.
Also, not using gasoline is not the same as using it efficiently. When the driver in those Euro countries drives down the road at higher rates of speed, they use more gasoline than the driver in the USA driving quite a bit slower. You completely discount distance and quite disingenuously speak to only one aspect of gasoline consumption, ignoring all others because you couldn't make your point had you considered them.
I'd be very interested to see your numbers that show gasoline consumed by the people in those Euro countries for miles driven in gasoline fuel vehicles. Not diesel, not electric, not public transit but gasoline fueled car and trucks. Not per capita but per a one to one relationship and then averaged for actual users and gasoline. I doubt we'll see that number but lets see how it goes. News for you, those big V8s in Mercedes and BMWs use fuel there just like they do here, drive faster, use more fuel. Then an add how many people actually have cars. Suddenly all your data goes right out the window.
Should we want to continue with the nonsense about the USA using more fuel, especially gasoline vs Europeans using fuel, why not compare Germany, the UK, France and Italy with countries like Niue, Tonga, Samoa or Chad? Why not indeed. Because it doesn't fit does it?
How about a nail in the coffin though? How easy it is to use individual countries in comparison when all of those countries are the size of some individual states in the USA? Yes, lets take the European Union and then compare.
USA is ranked #1 and...drum roll...the EU is ranked #2. What a surprise.
That should take care of all the data and the less than intellectually honest arguments about the USA using more gasoline than everyone else.
All you naysayers are correct: we're better off spending many billions per year in defense dollars to keep the gas spigot in the Middle East open. It just gets put on the national credit card anyway. So no pesky new taxes and we can still pretend that cheap gas is due to market forces.
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