Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Isn't that sort of what many 'average' folks think when they see 'organic' on the sign in the grocery store?
Do people really believe that the organic food which is sold in the millions of pounds has suddenly morphed from being 'pesticide/fertilizer/lord knows what laced' to being completely 'organic'? I find that hard to believe.
But the suppliers have figured it out...that they can put an organic label on anything, however spurious, and jack up the price a good bit, and folks will flock to it because it is 'green/organic'. It is inherently healthier, and good for them. And they are willing to pay up.
In nearly any activity in the modern world you need to follow the money to see what is really going on. It's a LOT less costly for me to spend a few million dollars lobbying the FDA to get them to 'believe' my paperwork, than it is to have the FDA come and inspect my production processes. Especially when I am pretending to be 'organic'.
If you're going to do all that why don't you just pretend to grow food and bill people for the pretend organic food. If they are stupid enough not to check that what you are selling is really organic, they are probably stupid enough to pay you for an empty bag of pretend food. Besides they are probably too fat anyway.
If you're going to do all that why don't you just pretend to grow food and bill people for the pretend organic food. If they are stupid enough not to check that what you are selling is really organic, they are probably stupid enough to pay you for an empty bag of pretend food. Besides they are probably too fat anyway.
Even MissingAll4Seasons agrees with me on the stupidity of some people.
Your example is beyond ludicrous and your profiling of certain people is disgusting....
Again, I don't think this outbreak is really an organic vs. conventional issue. It's a regular food safety issue... which, unfortunately, becomes more of a concern when products are imported from locations with less strict controls and then mass distributed over a large market area.
If anything, this outbreak shows the importance of listing all the countries of origin, not just the final one... if it were known that the fruit in the blend came from locations with a high incidence of infectious HepA, this foodbourne outbreak may have been prevented. Since the USDA & FDA have no authority in other countries, there is little they can do other than complain to whichever governing body does have authority. Testing the final product after "assembly" in the US may have stopped it if an infected batch was selected for the test sample; but short of testing every package of final product or not allowing imported foods from nations with known health risks, these types of outbreaks will continue. It definitely leads one to believe it may be prudent to spot-inspect processing facilities that use imported products more frequently.
Even MissingAll4Seasons agrees with me on the stupidity of some people
Hey, now, I wouldn't say I entirely agree with you
"Organic = safe" is a fallacy that is promoted through marketing, and the USDA's organic certification program reinforces it. It's no wonder that many people assume the food is safe if the authorities keep implying that it is. And with all the weird caveats and loopholes in the USDA organic regs these days, the certification doesn't mean much of what it used to (much like "free-range" and "natural" etc etc).
If the information isn't being fully disclosed without bias, we can't say that people are being stupid for making poor choices or improper assumptions. Not everyone is a skeptic with a skill and inclination for research. Heck, most people who think the authorities might not be telling us the whole truth and might have a vested interest in keeping us ignorant are usually labeled "tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists"
Wasn't the issue in spinach a few years ago from a farm in Salinas valley? I only bring this up because country of origin may not be a litmus test for safety. I think it is best to purchase locally grown fruits and vegetables or even better grow them yourself.
Wasn't the issue in spinach a few years ago from a farm in Salinas valley? I only bring this up because country of origin may not be a litmus test for safety. I think it is best to purchase locally grown fruits and vegetables or even better grow them yourself.
Adding country of origin isn't a panacea, but at least in the US the final producer is identified on the package and we have a reasonably good idea what kind of safety measures are in place if everything in it comes from the US. We have no idea what food safety measures and regulations are in place in other countries, nor can we check beforehand because it's not identified for imported ingredients processed in the US. Sure, there is a traceability paperwork at the manufacturing plant if the CDC needs to investigate an outbreak, but that doesn't help the consumer avoid or mitigate any risks in the first place.
It is not a question of organic vs traditional. It is a problem caused by using undocumented field workers.
They cross the border without any health screening. They don't get food handler cards. They don't use sanitation that is adequate. Many of the field workers live in unsanitary conditions.
I've seen workers in lettuce and strawberry fields urinating on the plants, and they are certainly not washing their hands afterwards.
Hepatitis outbreaks on restaurants are caused by the same thing. Undocumented aliens in the kitchen, no health screening, no food handlers cards because they work outside the system.
The only 100% way to be safe with your food is to grow your own, so that you know how it was handled and how it was grown. Other than that, you pay your money and you take your chances.
It is not a question of organic vs traditional. It is a problem caused by using undocumented field workers.
They cross the border without any health screening. They don't get food handler cards. They don't use sanitation that is adequate. Many of the field workers live in unsanitary conditions.
I've seen workers in lettuce and strawberry fields urinating on the plants, and they are certainly not washing their hands afterwards.
Hepatitis outbreaks on restaurants are caused by the same thing. Undocumented aliens in the kitchen, no health screening, no food handlers cards because they work outside the system.
The only 100% way to be safe with your food is to grow your own, so that you know how it was handled and how it was grown. Other than that, you pay your money and you take your chances.
Ewwww, so the plants go straight from the fields to the grocery shelves without ever being washed or sanitized?
Do all American organic food growers have these food handler cards, live in sanitary conditions and wash their hands after going to the bathroom?
How can we be sure? How can us city-dwellers grow our own produce, I for one am surrounded by miles of concrete and HOA laws.
It is not a question of organic vs traditional. It is a problem caused by using undocumented field workers.
They cross the border without any health screening. They don't get food handler cards. They don't use sanitation that is adequate. Many of the field workers live in unsanitary conditions.
Well, in this particular case, that's not the problem either since the vector of transmission was from pomegranate seeds that were grown and processed in Turkey and then imported to the US packaging plant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
I've seen workers in lettuce and strawberry fields urinating on the plants, and they are certainly not washing their hands afterwards.
About the only disease that is transmitted via urine without immediate direct contact with an open wound or mucous membrane is Cytomegalovirus (CMV). CMV is so prevalent in the environment that nearly everyone has been infected at some point or another without even knowing it -- the only people at risk of any serious complications are pregnant women (particularly the development of the unborn fetus), very young children, very old people, and person with compromised immune systems. It is not a foodbourne illness.
Most of the nasty foodbourne and contact infections are fecal... so I'd be much more worried if a field worker was taking a dump on the plants than taking a whiz on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
Hepatitis outbreaks on restaurants are caused by the same thing. Undocumented aliens in the kitchen, no health screening, no food handlers cards because they work outside the system.
If field workers aren't provided accessible sanitary restroom and handwashing facilities, isn't that their employer's bad? Not establishing and enforcing proper sanitation & handwashing protocols in food handling & processing facilities, isn't that the employer's responsibility? And hiring undocumented people in the first place, isn't that on the employers as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
The only 100% way to be safe with your food is to grow your own, so that you know how it was handled and how it was grown. Other than that, you pay your money and you take your chances.
You're not 100% safe even then. Nasty creepy crawlies exist in the environment, it's just a fact of life. But you do have more control and higher probability of safe food if you grow your own, or purchase from someone who you trust, and then follow proper sanitiation procedures while you process it. 99% of foodbourne illnesses aren't an issue in the whole food, so if you wash them and handle them properly the risk of an infectious dose is neglible.
In the case of this outbreak, had Townsend Farms purchased whole pomegranates from Turkey and processed them in a sanitary US facility rather purchasing processed pomegranate seeds, it is unlikely that any HepA infection would have occured. The processing stage is where most foodbourne illnesses become problematic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not establishing and enforcing proper sanitation & handwashing protocols in food handling & processing facilities, isn't that the employer's responsibility? 
