Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-22-2014, 10:27 AM
 
1,174 posts, read 2,516,124 times
Reputation: 1414

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
That wasn't the issue. He incorrectly described the process, stating that the liquid from the ground loop (typically water + anti-freeze) is turned into a gas in the evaporator. It isn't. What gets turned into a gas in the evaporator is the liquid refrigerant, which the ground loop liquid heats via a heat exchanger.
I misread. You are correct.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-25-2014, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Vermont
5,439 posts, read 16,872,181 times
Reputation: 2651
I would look seriously into cold climate heat pumps. They are getting more and more efficient. The latest technology will beat almost all "hands off" heating (that is to say, it's still more expensive than pellets, wood, or coal, because those are not "hands off") except for cheap natural gas. It takes $1.50 per gallon propane to be equal to the performance of a new Mitsubishi or Fujitsu ductless mini split, and I don't believe you can get $1.50 propane (not here at least).

I am planning to heat my home with 2 Mitsubishi FH series ductless mini splits. Cost installed around 8-9k.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 05:30 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,102,593 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleonidas View Post
I think he was describing how a heat pump can also be used to heat a forced air system. I think he's from Pennsylvania and they tend to be a little biased towards keeping warm rather than keeping cool.
The OP specifically mentioned heating and that is simply not going to work the way they described in their OP for heating. Here these are typically used with in floor radiant heating and yes heating is more important than cooling. Summers are no picnic some days, temps are in the 80's on average but there is a lot of humidity. We usually get about 2 or 3 weeks of 90+ but it's sporadic through the summer. I live on top of mountain, so it's a little cooler and there is always a breeze. There is only a few days each year I want air, I often have to debate with myself whether I want to go through the effort of putting in the window air conditioner.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 05:37 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,102,593 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe moving View Post
The latest technology will beat almost all "hands off" heating
Coal is not hands off but a few minutes each day or every other day in the middle of winter is really no effort when you consider the savings. This guy is from Vermont coincidentally.

The reason it's labeled biofuel is becsue you can burn wood pellets or corn mixed with the coal. It's primarily for coal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQT6CVC2sOc


Quote:
Cost installed around 8-9k.
That boiler pictured is about $9K on a pallet but you only buy it once in a lifetime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Kihei, Maui
177 posts, read 339,016 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Coal is not hands off but a few minutes each day or every other day in the middle of winter is really no effort when you consider the savings. This guy is from Vermont coincidentally.

The reason it's labeled biofuel is becsue you can burn wood pellets or corn mixed with the coal. It's primarily for coal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQT6CVC2sOc


That boiler pictured is about $9K on a pallet but you only buy it once in a lifetime.
That is great IF you are near a source of COAL at the retail level (delivered to the house by truck) and you are using Hot Water Heating.

On new construction If you upgrade the building envelope (outside walls and windows) to the Canadian Building codes 6" wall studs, Outer layer of foam solid insulation 1" over solid wood sheathing 1/2" Reflective air infiltration barrier, they seal the joints between the horizontal wood connections with caulk (between the floor joists and the subfloor and between the wall sill plate and the subfloor at the outside of the building). Triple pane windows with high quality weather stripping in moving joints. Air to air heat exchangers for make up air for any combustion and fume removal. Keep the house at a slight ( less than 1" H2O) positive pressure to the outside to prevent drafts when heating or cooling is being used.

The other thing that can help is to site the house so it fits into the landscape so it uses its features to protect the contents from the worst of the weather and it uses the best of nature (passive solar, cooling winds, etc.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 07:09 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,102,593 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmmenn2014 View Post
That is great IF you are near a source of COAL at the retail level (delivered to the house by truck) and you are using Hot Water Heating.
You can get anthracite in the Northeast US just about anywhere however the further you get from Northeastern Pennsylvania the costlier it will be and less likely you'll get delivery from a truck. Keep in mind a coal truck is like no other truck, you can't just go out and buy one. If you are going to consider coal the first thing you need to do is find out if there is dealer in your area and what your options are. If you're rural and have the cash delivery by tractor trialer is always an option with a huge savings.

This one is a seven ton lift I recently sold, actually had a guy from Ohio that drove 10 hours to look at it.





Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Vegas
1,782 posts, read 2,140,498 times
Reputation: 1789
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna View Post
Anywhere you are on the Earth's surface, 10 feet (3 meters) underground the temperature is a constant 55-60 degrees F (12-15 degrees C) year round. Bury a pipe at this depth and run water through it. The earth will heat the water to this temperature for free and without pollution. You can then run air over the water pipe in what is called a heat exchanger and then use that pre-warmed (or pre-cooled) air in your ventilation system lowering the cost of heating (or cooling) your house.
Why not do what American Indians of the southwest did from time immemorial?

Thick sun-dried walls and roof. Built four of five deep into the ground.

Cool amidst the heat of summer and warm during winter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,462,187 times
Reputation: 10760
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargentodiaz View Post
Why not do what American Indians of the southwest did from time immemorial? Thick sun-dried walls and roof. Built four of five deep into the ground. Cool amidst the heat of summer and warm during winter.
It's a practical design in the southwest desert. Not so much where it rains.

But I think the main thing that kills it from current consideration is an image problem. I think it's associated in many people's minds with poverty and primitive living.

There is a related design that seems better accepted, though not particularly popular, called earth berm construction, as I recall. Basically it's done by constructing a building, at grade or below, and then piling earth against it for the insulation value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 8,002,180 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
It's a practical design in the southwest desert. Not so much where it rains.

But I think the main thing that kills it from current consideration is an image problem. I think it's associated in many people's minds with poverty and primitive living.

There is a related design that seems better accepted, though not particularly popular, called earth berm construction, as I recall. Basically it's done by constructing a building, at grade or below, and then piling earth against it for the insulation value.
Very popular in New Mexico and Arizona, where Native Americans used that type of construction. It wasn't practical elsewhere for the Native Americans either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2014, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
553 posts, read 596,532 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargentodiaz View Post
Why not do what American Indians of the southwest did from time immemorial?

Thick sun-dried walls and roof. Built four of five deep into the ground.

Cool amidst the heat of summer and warm during winter.
I am familiar with earth-sheltered homes. The problem is your house looks like a hill and some of us would prefer a little more individual expression than that. Also your windows are limited and inside tunnels.

Best design I've heard is to have a U-shaped house built around a patio and walls of glass with curtains so as to allow maximum sunlight and you don't feel like you're inside a cave. Dirt is piled up around the outside walls of the U and covered with grass and flowers and landscaping. A community of such homes would be like a park with a number of small hills where the houses are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top