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Allow a farmer to earn money by planting trees and you are going to see a lot more forests in this country. If you knew a farmer, you would understand the truth of that statement.
The incentive would have to be substantial because you are going to have to lock them into an agreement. If I'm a farmer and you are going to lock me into an agreement I'm going to have to carefully weigh my expenses such as taxes and lost revenue. I'm also going to have to consider the devaluation of my property caused by the agreement itself and the trees that are now going to be growing in what was valuable cleared land.
I going to suggest the cost of providing them with enough incentive would be too much.
Anything the government has a hand in, will not go well....that's a guarantee and a well-proved fact.
Taxing something only COSTS everyone...it won't decrease the amount of anything...just makes it cost more....
Humans cannot change the climate. Did anyone try and change the dust bowl in the 30's? No...but now, today, it gets the rain it used to get....courtesy of Mother Nature!
The climate changes...it's cyclical....we have nothing to do with it. I'm not advocating dirtying our planet, but trying to change what we have when we aren't ready???? Nope
Dust bowl was not JUST a lack a rain -- the "Dust" of the Dust Bowl was topsoil, laid open from [wait for it ] MANMADE Plowing. We now limit that undesired outcome by NOT doing massive deep plowing.
When Nature does what Nature does . . . we should likely want to be smart enough to Not Make Things Worse -- for ourselves and others.
But as far as Taxing -- There is an old Maxim -- the Power to Tax is the Power to Destroy. And it is largely true. Heavy Taxation on any behavior can tend to limit or reduce that behavior. Couple of reasons. As you noted it becomes expensive. The high(er) expense can tend to reduce demand. Second part, as noted in this thread -- that can make other choices seem relatively cheaper.
Ideally changes in behavior are done with a "Carrot and Stick" approach (from Horse and Mule days. btw, that Does Not Mean a carrot being dangled from a string on a stick). The Carrot is something desirable -- to go towards. The Stick was for hitting the Horse or Mule. yeah.
So the concept becomes Avoid Punishment, Go Towards Reward.
The HUGE Lag in the Carbon is not Technology nor Taxes -- it is the HUGE Investment and sort of Make Believe of the Wealth of the Carbon Resource. The Coal, Oil and Natural Gas still in the Ground is a source of Great Imagined Wealth -- the Owners think it turns into Money as it is brought out. As soon as that part is broken -- Game Over.
Anything the government has a hand in, will not go well....that's a guarantee and a well-proved fact.
Taxing something only COSTS everyone...it won't decrease the amount of anything...just makes it cost more....
Humans cannot change the climate. Did anyone try and change the dust bowl in the 30's? No...but now, today, it gets the rain it used to get....courtesy of Mother Nature!
The climate changes...it's cyclical....we have nothing to do with it. I'm not advocating dirtying our planet, but trying to change what we have when we aren't ready???? Nope
What? I couldn't disagree with you more. You're speaking in superlatives here so just one instance of something going better with government intervention completely disproves your thought. The government improves the welfare of us all through a system of laws, regulations, & military protection. So many things that we enjoy would not exist without the government and our collective contributions. Generally all of us are smarter together than any one of us alone.
As for the dust bowl, it was more than just a drought, but a misunderstanding of crop cycling, diversification, and a misunderstanding of ecology. Just read the first paragraph on Wikipedia.
You're right that climate change appears cyclical, but it's very short sighted to say that we should try to change or adapt. Our ability to correlate trends, make scientific predictions, and apply technology to mitigate the ill effects might be one of our greatest gifts from evolution.
The incentive would have to be substantial because you are going to have to lock them into an agreement. If I'm a farmer and you are going to lock me into an agreement I'm going to have to carefully weigh my expenses such as taxes and lost revenue. I'm also going to have to consider the devaluation of my property caused by the agreement itself and the trees that are now going to be growing in what was valuable cleared land.
I going to suggest the cost of providing them with enough incentive would be too much.
Clearly you have not addressed what I wrote and instead decided to throw out some inflammatory comment because that is all you could come up with.
I'm fairly confident I have known more farmers than you. For starters I probably had about 20 farmers as customers. Farm land in my area is not cheap, it is going to start in the $8K to $10K range per acre. In some areas it can go for 20 or 30 grand per acre.
Clearly you have not addressed what I wrote and instead decided to throw out some inflammatory comment because that is all you could come up with.
I'm fairly confident I have known more farmers than you. For starters I probably had about 20 farmers as customers. Farm land in my area is not cheap, it is going to start in the $8K to $10K range per acre. In some areas it can go for 20 or 30 grand per acre.
I know a few hundred from about 20-30 different states. I know them as board members to local cooperatives where they make financial decisions. I've seen them get totally on board with wind power on their land. Getting them to convert their least productive farmland to forest would be a walk in the park.
Unless I'm missing something ,"cap and trade" revenues have never put wealth in the hands of the poor.
Of course not.
The "redistribution" claims in most of polictico-speak is code for Reich Wangers blaming poor folks for their own problems.
Real Deal on Cap and Trade -- from back when I was working Coal (Electric) Power Generation -- Just the mention of that C and T made the Top End smile and laugh like someone said "Free Beer" in a Frat House.
The thinking was C and T would run up costs -- so that would run up prices. They lived in a world of Percentage of Gross Revenues -- so anything that ran up prices would benefit them.
Surplus and Falling Prices is the Realm the Corporate Generators could not / cannot survive.
Unless I'm missing something ,"cap and trade" revenues have never put wealth in the hands of the poor.
Not the intent. The intent is to improve the environment at the lowest economic cost. Assisting the poor is necessary government function, but not all government activity needs a "help the poor" component. Improving the environment does help the poor along with the rest of the country.
Not the intent. The intent is to improve the environment at the lowest economic cost. Assisting the poor is necessary government function, but not all government activity needs a "help the poor" component. Improving the environment does help the poor along with the rest of the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
The carbon tax and the "cap and trade" revenues have one purpose; to redistribute wealth. The environment is the cover.
Which makes it a remarkably regressive redistribution for liberals to promote.
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] MANMADE Plowing. We now limit that undesired outcome by NOT doing massive deep plowing. 
