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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,771 posts, read 81,743,750 times
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It depends on how you look at it. While they reduce the use of fossil fuels and pollution when being driven, the process of manufacturing their batteries is very bad for the environment, and charging them uses electricity which may be coming from a coal fired power plant.
I think buying a 10 year old conventional car and using it for another 10 years or so creates less environmental stress than buying a new "green" car. I may consider a used Hybrid when they get down to my price level.
Example - I once bought a huge GM Caprice station wagon with 100k miles and a new diesel engine for $1000. I ran the car for another 7 years and 100 k miles until the diesel engine seized. As the thing had just about rusted out I scrapped it for $200.
If we really cared about building "green" cars they would have galvanized sheet metal or some other coating that would let them survive 30 years of Northern salted winter roads. I have a car I expect to operate for another 20 years but I store it during the winter. FWIW - I am not all that certain I will be alive for another 20 years.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,821 posts, read 58,392,967 times
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Ditto.... Re-use of existing econo car would have a more sustainable footprint. Lots of energy and resources expended to make a new 'temporary' (i.e. Plastic / throwaway car),
If you drive 24/7 commercial / taxi, a new electric vehicle would be good for your business and environment. ( that us where technology efforts should be concentrated). If you drive 20 min / day.... Not so good.
For last 40 yrs, i have used a 1976 car that gets 50 mpg on free cooking oil. Not for everyone, but pretty sustainable and low impact and cost. Veggie and algae fuel has negligable emmisions. Cannot even be detected at dyno test. Algae fuel is great in airplanes, it is just not cheap to process, yet. Very cheap to grow!
I expect to have all my cars wearing ,collector' plates by the time I'm age 65. $42 one time registration fee for life of vehicle. Most of them will have minimal plastic, excluding my B4V TDI Passat Wagons. Gotta love 52 mpg, 1200 miles between fills, room to sleep, zero cost fuel, very rarely fix, parts are dirt cheap.
The problem with buying used, especially in an urban environment, is that older cars are dirtier than new cars and getting dirtier every year (even Stealth's $35 veggie diesel cars). So they are adding to the urban pollution and poor air quality while driving around. EVs reduce that AND don't measurably increase the pollution from a power plant, that has to run anyhow. And power plants are getting cleaner every year, which makes the EV run cleaner every year. There s a reason that older cars are getting banned from European cities, and even ICE cars in general are getting banned form city centers, or getting charged a pollution tax to drive there.
Not all of us want to drive beaters daily, either. It's one of the things I miss about my Volt. Clean, new, powerful silent electric thrust, and just nice to be in.
And no, the batteries are really no more environmentally bad to make than any other part of the car (like the miles of copper wiring in your conventional car) and much of it is recycled and recyclable. You don't strip mine for lithium...
Why are you concerned with this anyway? You ever read how little of total CO2 and other gasses into atmosphere is actually produced by humans? Not what Al Gore tells you. The real number. It's like nothing. Ocean and forests produce more "harmful" emission than human will ever do.
Yes! There is pollution associated with production of such cars but it is a one-time-per-car problem during manufacture, and management could deal with it effectively. But a fuel-powered vehicle not only pollutes upon manufacture, but continues it with every mile driven.
I have a hybrid and over the last 3 years it has averaged 72 MPG. I have a hybrid because all-electric cars are not yet very easy to charge on long trips and if the battery runs out, you can't get AAA to run out a fresh charge for you. So you have to work with the limitations of a purely electric car.
For 22 miles of driving it costs me 55 cents for the electricity. And if I can limit my driving to about 20 miles between charges, I wouldn't have to buy gas at all.
My electricity is generated by hydro and natural gas but the efficiency of natural gas generation outshines the poorer efficiency of any gasoline-powered engine. Meanwhile 72 MPG does the environment good, by comparison. Things will improve further in the future.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,771 posts, read 81,743,750 times
Reputation: 58170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
Yes! There is pollution associated with production of such cars but it is a one-time-per-car problem during manufacture, and management could deal with it effectively. But a fuel-powered vehicle not only pollutes upon manufacture, but continues it with every mile driven.
I have a hybrid and over the last 3 years it has averaged 72 MPG. I have a hybrid because all-electric cars are not yet very easy to charge on long trips and if the battery runs out, you can't get AAA to run out a fresh charge for you. So you have to work with the limitations of a purely electric car.
For 22 miles of driving it costs me 55 cents for the electricity. And if I can limit my driving to about 20 miles between charges, I wouldn't have to buy gas at all.
My electricity is generated by hydro and natural gas but the efficiency of natural gas generation outshines the poorer efficiency of any gasoline-powered engine. Meanwhile 72 MPG does the environment good, by comparison. Things will improve further in the future.
Unfortunately, though, 33% of electricity produced in the USA is from burning coal. One irony is that building more roads would greatly reduce emissions from vehicles, with more of it coming from idling cars stuck in traffic jams than when moving at the speed limit.
Unfortunately, though, 33% of electricity produced in the USA is from burning coal. One irony is that building more roads would greatly reduce emissions from vehicles, with more of it coming from idling cars stuck in traffic jams than when moving at the speed limit.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,771 posts, read 81,743,750 times
Reputation: 58170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T
Coal was was around 50% just a decade ago, and is falling fast.
There would be less traffic issues if businesses did not all try to schedule for the same time.
Most roads are mostly empty most of the time.
You haven't been around here I guess. Most major arterials and freeways are busy 24/7, the only empty roads are in suburban residential areas at night. Here, we schedule employees to start wiork any time between 6am (my start time) and 10:00am. Most large employers such as Microsoft and Amazon do the same. That only stretches out the "rush hour." The problem is the number of new home developments, condos and apartments being built without any infrastructure or increased public transportation to support all of those new residents.
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