Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All that means is it is time again to lead by example... as mentioned, California, Oregon and Washington are very much in sync and represent a huge block of the United States.
If I were to put into a few words the reason Trump won against all the odds it is because too many people are tired of being dictated to from a Central Government and have felt for a long time left out.
Michael Moore presented an excellent piece describing the heartland of America and if he can see the question is why couldn't others?
Lead by example?
If your neighbor started dumping his garbage in your back yard, would you be fine with your township telling you to "lead by example"? Or would you expect someone to stop it from happening ? I bet it's the later. The EPA protects citizens of one state from being harmed by pollution from another and if you think this wasn't an issue look at what happened before he EPA was formed.
Other States adopted California Clean Air Standards...
Way back in the 1960's California started as a pioneer in auto emissions and today it is the Gold Standard.
California Emission Standards have been adopted almost unchanged nationwide.
Show me something better and I will follow willingly...
A neighbor is never going to dump garbage in my back yard... the last time it happened I prosecuted and showed up in court...
If the neighbor wants garbage in his backyard he can live in dump if that is what he wants.
I have a little HOA experience and my neighbor is a one man electrical contractor... he got into hot water driving his pickup home because it has the company name on it... I told him it doesn't bother me in the least and he has nothing to worry about from me...
This is part of the problem... too many people in other people's business AND the erosion of private property rights...
It Trump can restore even a modicum of private property rights many will see him as a success...
I bet they get a lot of tax money to go to conferences like this. I doubt they are going to kill the fatted calf they have created.
But still you refuse to answer the most critical question. What is the best temperature for the earth and why?
I answered your question already. I am sorry you have such a disdain for science and scientists.
BTW, the AGU is mostly about plate tectonics, seismology, and fossil fuel exploration. Climate is a small part of it. The conference is heavily subsidized by the energy (what used to be called "oil") industry.
A neighbor is never going to dump garbage in my back yard... the last time it happened I prosecuted and showed up in court...
If the neighbor wants garbage in his backyard he can live in dump if that is what he wants.
Apparently the analogy went right over your head but in it the neighbor and you are different states, and as you mentioned court, the federal government is the one who stops one neighboring state from polluting another. And do you really think if you neighbor turns his yard into a garbage dump it's fine for his neighbors? The garbage, smell, vermin, bacteria, and run off would all carry the consequences of his choice to pollute his private property to yours. But you're fine with this right?
Quote:
I have a little HOA experience and my neighbor is a one man electrical contractor... he got into hot water driving his pickup home because it has the company name on it... I told him it doesn't bother me in the least and he has nothing to worry about from me...
This is part of the problem... too many people in other people's business AND the erosion of private property rights...
It Trump can restore even a modicum of private property ..
Ah so if your neighbor was disposing of heavy metals in his yard from his contracting business that would be fine right? What if rain swept those same heavy metals into your yard? Would you expect the HOA to get involved at that point?
I answered your question already. I am sorry you have such a disdain for science and scientists.
BTW, the AGU is mostly about plate tectonics, seismology, and fossil fuel exploration. Climate is a small part of it. The conference is heavily subsidized by the energy (what used to be called "oil") industry.
When you make an argument and people discount it, it's not because they're too stupid to understand it. It's because they disagree with your argument or they feel something else takes precedence, such as individual rights. But if you'd like to continue to think everyone else is just too stupid to understand you, keep doing so.
Now that the Republicans have taken power and have control of Congress, the presidency, and soon probably also the Supreme Court how do we protect our environment? I assume they will now attack clean air and water regulations and allow companies to pollute all they want to . What can we who care about the environment do to continue to protect it when those who make the rules do not?
FWIW, I am of the opinion that the environment was screwed... Dem or Rep. control. Nothing short of the aliens from The Day The Earth Stood Still, threatening us with bigger guns and superior technology to not destroy our own earth will really do much. Makes currently not having kids to leave the earth to feel nicer
Apparently the analogy went right over your head but in it the neighbor and you are different states, and as you mentioned court, the federal government is the one who stops one neighboring state from polluting another. And do you really think if you neighbor turns his yard into a garbage dump it's fine for his neighbors? The garbage, smell, vermin, bacteria, and run off would all carry the consequences of his choice to pollute his private property to yours. But you're fine with this right?
Ah so if your neighbor was disposing of heavy metals in his yard from his contracting business that would be fine right? What if rain swept those same heavy metals into your yard? Would you expect the HOA to get involved at that point?
It is already standing law that one party is responsible for the damage done to another...
State sue States and neighbors sue neighbors.
What is wrong with a live and let live philosophy?
The biggest polluter in my area are city owned sewer lines that overflow dumping all the sewage into the creek... I have been relentless in getting the city to address and finally after many years the line was replaced.
The city has extensive ordinances and regulations that apply to private property but for the most part do not apply to the city...
I posted before about being cited for brush abatement on land owned by the city... had it been my land I must comply or the city will do the work and lien the property... after pointing out the brush is on city property... you know what happened... absolutely nothing.
Same with auto emissions... government owned vehicles are exempt from smog laws...
The Federal Government needs no permission or review to build anywhere... post office on up.
A lot of people are tired of being subject to laws without a voice and worse yet the vary people that make the laws typically exempt themselves.
A lot of people that have not been heard or worse ignored have spoken and it is Trump.
I won't know how good or bad until his term is over... talk about judging a book by it's cover.
Do we really need the Federal Government dictating what light bulb can be sold or toilet?
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 11-13-2016 at 05:06 PM..
When you make an argument and people discount it, it's not because they're too stupid to understand it. It's because they disagree with your argument or they feel something else takes precedence, such as individual rights. But if you'd like to continue to think everyone else is just too stupid to understand you, keep doing so.
He either doesn't understand the analogy or he is all about individual rights, except when he isn't. So is it stupidity or hypocrisy?
It is already standing law that one party is responsible for the damage done to another...
State sue States and neighbors sue neighbors.
Really? States enjoy sovereign immunity except where specifically curbed by federal laws. Laws that like CWA and CAA are overseen by federal agencies like the EPA. So no, the statement "states sue states" as analogous to how neighbors is not true. In fact, the only recourse states have to legally go after another state for pollution is THROUGH THE EPA.
Additionally, the recognition of the need for federal oversight regarding extraterritorial pollution is part of what gave rise to the EPA.
Maybe, before you should read up before you spout off.
Quote:
What is wrong with a live and let live philosophy?
The biggest polluter in my area are city owned sewer lines that overflow dumping all the sewage into the creek... I have been relentless in getting the city to address and finally after many years the line was replaced.
The city has extensive ordinances and regulations that apply to private property but for the most part do not apply to the city...
I posted before about being cited for brush abatement on land owned by the city... had it been my land I must comply or the city will do the work and lien the property... after pointing out the brush is on city property... you know what happened... absolutely nothing.
The reason you can petition your local community is that your state has laws that allow you to do so. Likewise the framework for recourse between the states is through the EPA.
Quote:
Same with auto emissions... government owned vehicles are exempt from smog laws...
Source? Because I regularly drive a federally owned truck, it is inspected every year and must pass emissions laws.
Quote:
The Federal Government needs no permission or review to build anywhere... post office on up.
What are you talking about? I work in a federal lab on federal property, the review process to do anything is far more extensive than local rule. This needs a source as well.
Quote:
A lot of people are tired of being subject to laws without a voice and worse yet the vary people that make the laws typically exempt themselves.
A lot of people that have not been heard or worse ignored have spoken and it is Trump.
I won't know how good or bad until his term is over... talk about judging a book by it's cover.
Do we really need the Federal Government dictating what light bulb can be sold or toilet?
Do we really need people to just make things up?
First, EISA, of which light bulbs were a tiny piece, was signed into law by a Republican president. Second, it did not dictate what bulbs could be sold but simply required bulbs sold to meet the same level of efficiency as other first world countries. As for low flush toilets, another regulation signed into being by a Republican president you know the guys who do small government?
Do you know how much energy, water, and so on are saved by those two pieces of legislation?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
