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I'm sure there is an Internet site that can illustrate the cost of an item manufactured in the US vs off shore.
It depends entirely on how you define "cost" - and that's the problem. There are first-order and second-order costs. Say it's cheaper to manufacture a product using the solvent ethyl methyl ketone (MEK). In the US (and most Western countries) the use of MEK is strictly controlled, both from a worker health standpoint and an environmental disposal standpoint. So you take the product offshore, to a country where there are no standards. The same serious health and environmental risks apply, but in that country they are entirely external to the product cost, whereas in the US, there is an internalized cost of dealing with that chemical.
It depends entirely on how you define "cost" - and that's the problem. There are first-order and second-order costs. Say it's cheaper to manufacture a product using the solvent ethyl methyl ketone (MEK). In the US (and most Western countries) the use of MEK is strictly controlled, both from a worker health standpoint and an environmental disposal standpoint. So you take the product offshore, to a country where there are no standards. The same serious health and environmental risks apply, but in that country they are entirely external to the product cost, whereas in the US, there is an internalized cost of dealing with that chemical.
The relevant dollar value is not cost at all. It is the selling price that U.S. supplier A versus the selling price that offshore supplier B charges to put a good FOB the retailers loading dock. Let's not get bogged down in this "cost to humanity" issue. That cost is born by the offshore country, and if offshore standards change, then the cost structure of the offshore supplier change accordingly. You play the game with the cards that you are dealt.
The relevant dollar value is not cost at all. It is the selling price that U.S. supplier A versus the selling price that offshore supplier B charges to put a good FOB the retailers loading dock. Let's not get bogged down in this "cost to humanity" issue. That cost is born by the offshore country, and if offshore standards change, then the cost structure of the offshore supplier change accordingly. You play the game with the cards that you are dealt.
Why not? There is more to everything than just money. To use your card analogy, the dealer is dealing from different parts of the deck for different customers. You need to look at the entire deck to figure out what's going on.
Aw, DRATS! Someone finally figured me out -- right, I never need anything!
To answer your question, Katiana, I've been self-supporting since the age of 17, and as my user title hints, I'm closer to a senior citizen than a kid. Of course I'm running a household! I'm also self-employed, so I understand a thing or two about business first-hand. Oddly enough, the work I do could easily be outsourced to India, but 90% of my clients are local, within a 50-mile radius. (The other 10% are in various locations throughout North America.) In spite of globalization, time and time again my clients insist that they contract with me because they want someone local! So to tip my hand a little, this is one reason that I in return care so much about supporting my local economy. To me it matters deeply that my dollars go to a neighbor rather than a faceless billionaire CEO who gives two damned toots about my survival.
As to shopping, I use a mix of smaller chains (the smaller and more local the better), farmers markets and thrift stores. Instead of buying new, I'm one of the few who would rather pay the neighborhood handyman or local repair guy to breathe new life into my oldish things. Ok, I don't have new and shiny all the time, but my reward comes from knowing that my money went to a neighbor or a fellow small-business owner doing the best he or she can to support him/herself in the face of the _____marts!
OK, OK, I was just asking. There are a lot of posters on here who are barely out of high school. I just don't understand why you think Wal Mart in particular is so evil. Everything you say about Wal Mart can be said about other retailers, including the Mom and Pops. I would bet a good portion of my savings (not much in any event) that most Mom and Pops do not provide vacation time, health insurance, sick time, etc. Most retailiers are interested in encouraging consumerism. It's not just Wal Mart. And since Wal Mart sells what it sells, I use it mostly for what I mentioned. The real consumerist retailers, IMO, are selling high end stuff that no one needs.
I just don't understand why you think Wal Mart in particular is so evil.
I don't know why my point keeps getting buried. The question way back on page 2 or 3 of this thread was whether or not Walmart was "green" because they instituted more energy efficient this or that. My answer is "no" because consumerism on the grand scale that Walmart crams down our throats is fundamentally destructive to the environment. It's like having a "more efficient oil spill!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Everything you say about Wal Mart can be said about other retailers, including the Mom and Pops.
Hardly! Mom and Pops are my neighbors. Walmart represents profits that have nothing to do with me or my city. My local Mom and Pop has a vested interest in my community on many, many levels. Do you think Walmart cares what happens locally? The money spent there, by far and away, goes straight back to the corporate headquarters some place in Arkansas.
I don't know why my point keeps getting buried. The question way back on page 2 or 3 of this thread was whether or not Walmart was "green" because they instituted more energy efficient this or that. My answer is "no" because consumerism on the grand scale that Walmart crams down our throats is fundamentally destructive to the environment. It's like having a "more efficient oil spill!"
Hardly! Mom and Pops are my neighbors. Walmart represents profits that have nothing to do with me or my city. My local Mom and Pop has a vested interest in my community on many, many levels. Do you think Walmart cares what happens locally? The money spent there, by far and away, goes straight back to the corporate headquarters some place in Arkansas.
I'm not particularly impressed by any "green" businesses. They are all in business to make money. If "green" is in, they will call themselves green.
I would suggest you drop in on the owner of your local Mom and Pops and ask them if they offer heatlh insurance, sick time, vacation time, etc. I bet it's likely most will say, "We'd love to, but we can't afford to". Then they will blame Wal Mart.
We shop at WalMart and I have no problems with Wal-Mart or their business practices. They are no worse than the average American company, only larger, which places them under much heavier scrutiny and allows any mistakes they make to be headline news while other companies do the same stuff all the time and nobody says anything.
As for offshoring labor, thank Billy Clinton for that. America needs to be more business friendly than we are, and we also should give tax breaks big enough that companies would not have a reason to offshore production.
The "Marts" aren't doing things any different than any other large company all the way down to sporting goods companies having baseballs made in China so they can make an extra dime per ball.
If you shop at wal-mart, then YOU are contributing to offshoring labor. Sorry, but the consumer drives the economy towards cheap... China labor... not BILL ClINTON. I'm a Republican, and even I known that... Where have you been for the last 8 years?
I find it really ironic, that Americans complain about products being shipped from across the planet, yet THEY are the ones that complain about the lack of "green living."
Wal-mart, and all the other ___-marts sell cheap, unnecessary CRAP. It's ANTI-GREEN living to shop at those places, no matter what anyone says to make themselves feel better.
I heard a quote in an interview on NPR last night, and this particular thread sprang irresistibly to mind. The quote was something along the lines of:
"We must remember not to let the perfect become the enemy of the good."
The point being that if we are so insistent on "perfect" that when Walmart, say, improves what they're doing, if we jump on them for not doing more or not doing it earlier rather than saying, "Great first step, guys!", we discourage anyone from trying at all, because all they'll get for their pains is more abuse. (And, yes, it is abuse, however politically correct it might be.)
So, if the first impulse is to chastise Walmart (or anyone else) for not doing enough or doing it sooner or doing it for the "right" motivations by our lights, rather than being encouraging, we might want to look at what our TRUE motivation is and what we really want. Is it improvement, or is it a feeling of self-righteousness?
I heard a quote in an interview on NPR last night, and this particular thread sprang irresistibly to mind. The quote was something along the lines of:
"We must remember not to let the perfect become the enemy of the good."
The point being that if we are so insistent on "perfect" that when Walmart, say, improves what they're doing, if we jump on them for not doing more or not doing it earlier rather than saying, "Great first step, guys!", we discourage anyone from trying at all, because all they'll get for their pains is more abuse. (And, yes, it is abuse, however politically correct it might be.)
So, if the first impulse is to chastise Walmart (or anyone else) for not doing enough or doing it sooner or doing it for the "right" motivations by our lights, rather than being encouraging, we might want to look at what our TRUE motivation is and what we really want. Is it improvement, or is it a feeling of self-righteousness?
Well that sounds really great IN THEORY. But let's face it, Wal-mart executives will do what ever it takes to make the consumers happy. If we are sick of their ANTI-GREEN crap, then they'll change their ways... maybe. But only if we are persistent by withholding our dollars. The dollar speaks louder than my own voice unfortunately....
Recently, I've checked out "green ads" by Wal-mart in a magazine (how much oil did it take to print that ad????) I'm not fooled. I don't know about anyone else... but I'd rather not support Wal-mart (or any other sell out company) at all until they get with the program. There's nothing wrong with making a profit, but it's not cool to sell out the environment. This planet doesn't belong to us... as soon as we realize this... the better off the world will be....
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