What you **NEED** to know about grain fed beef (compost, garden, city)
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-" even though cattle are only two years old when they are slaughtered, they usually are VERY ILL "
20yrsinBranson--------eveyone is entotled to their opinion.
You, however, are crossing the line and using an out right lie to further your opinion.
"they give them excessive amounts of antibiotics"
another out right lie disguised as an opinion / fact
I am only repeating what I read in the book. The author was there, in person, at the feed lots and he saw trucks haul in hundreds of pounds of antibiotics on a weekly basis to mix with the food. He also spoke with people who worked at the feed lot and they were the ones that gave him the information. He did not make it up. One of the workers on the lot made the statement that, indeed, the mortality rate of the cattle of the feed lot was less than 18 percent but without the antibiotics it would be three or four times that - easily.
First of, there would be so many abuses as to what you propose in a "local community" that it would merit all meat inspections utterly useless. It would fly in the face of some landmark legislation too such as "Right to Farm Laws".
It would also be inherently bad for the farmer. Custom slaughter means you sell whole carcasses, half carcasses or quarters...which is just fine. If you start selling cuts by the piece,what you end up with is plenty of front quarters that nobody wants and no leg of lamb or tenderloins. In other words, the choice cuts are gone and the lesser cuts stick around in your freezer. Ultimately you raise your operating costs by having to raise more animals to keep up with the demand for choice cuts. The small scale farmer needs to be more efficient, not less efficient.
As for "if I meet it, I can't eat it"...as society we have to get over this. Way too many people are disconnected from their food supply. Yes farms are smelly places, and and all baby mammals are cute, but ultimately they are just livestock. This is what we raise them for...they are not pets. The difference is, just because I know in 200 days I am going to put down the very lamb that I got up at 2 AM to ensure a healthy birth...you can treat them appropriately in between.
Since the primary jurisdiction of Right To Farm laws centers on "public nuisance" claims of odor, noise, dust and the use of pesticides; I fail to see how it directly correlate to farm slaughter of farm-raised animals -- with the possible exception of "public health safety" from tainted meat. However, tainted produce is not the issue in the majority of those lawsuits land use is.
I'm also not sure how small-producer, local, direct market exemptions would make all meat inspection everywhere useless. There are already some exemptions of this nature on the books - most states allow you to slaughter and sell up to 100 of your own poultry birds on your farm, and to sell the eggs of a laying flock of less that 300 hens (no more than 3 dozen per customer at one time) as long as it is direct sale and properly labeled. Red meat and milk are the ones that require small-scale prohibitive regulation, inspection and licensing. So what's the difference between white meat & eggs vs. red meat & dairy? Why are there exemptions for one category and not the other?
How the farmer goes about slaughter and butcher, and the arrangement of sales is secondary to his legal right to do so. No, most farmers wouldn't want to only sell the most choice cuts and be left with the less choice cuts... but that's a business decision. It still doesn't address the fact that he is precluded from slaughtering and butchering animals he raised and selling the meat directly to his neighbors. One is a business model, the other is a legal right. As for the business decision, you're right, small scale needs to be more efficient.
I do agree that people need to be more involved in where their food comes from and how it gets to their table... to include the slaughter of that cute little animal. But sometimes it's just a matter of convenience... say, if the farmer has sold the meat of one animal equally to four customers, it's must easier for everyone involved to let the farmer slaughter, butcher and deliver it (or for them to come pick it up) rather than dealing with all the extra steps.
I guess my point of contention is that I fail to see why the government (at any level) needs to be in the middle of any direct transaction between me and my neighbor. If wanted to sell meat at the market in town (4 hours away BTW), or to a retail chain all over the state, or across state lines that's an entirely different situation than me trying to help feed my immediate neighbors as an extremely small producer.
The Right to Farm Laws apply to all farms and was a sweeping legislation that really gave the farmer some leeway in which to farm as they saw fit. As I mentioned in the Genetically Modified part of this thread, it allows us to farm with GM seed and stuff. But Right to Farm Laws apply to all farmers. If you start adding regulations that allow a small farmer to by-pass checks and measures that ensure safe meat so the small farmer can have an unfair advantage, you are in violation of the Right to Farm Law.
This is happening in Maine right now, but with dairy farmers. They want the Tier 3 farms (mega dairy farms) to pay for the Maine Dairy initiative so that the Tier 1 farms (small farms) can get a better price and make a living wage. It goes up to vote again next month, but the Maine Milk Commission said "hey this is just not fair to the 21 Tier III farms at all." They got just as much right to farm as the smaller farms...farming is tough in Maine no matter what size you are.
I'm also not sure how small-producer, local, direct market exemptions would make all meat inspection everywhere useless. There are already some exemptions of this nature on the books - most states allow you to slaughter and sell up to 100 of your own poultry birds on your farm, and to sell the eggs of a laying flock of less that 300 hens (no more than 3 dozen per customer at one time) as long as it is direct sale and properly labeled. Red meat and milk are the ones that require small-scale prohibitive regulation, inspection and licensing. So what's the difference between white meat & eggs vs. red meat & dairy? Why are there exemptions for one category and not the other?
Its pretty easy to figure out, there is a lot more volume sold and these commodities have a lot more potential problems for food contamination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons
How the farmer goes about slaughter and butcher, and the arrangement of sales is secondary to his legal right to do so. No, most farmers wouldn't want to only sell the most choice cuts and be left with the less choice cuts... but that's a business decision. It still doesn't address the fact that he is precluded from slaughtering and butchering animals he raised and selling the meat directly to his neighbors.
Again you are confused here. I can sell you slaughtered and butchered animals directly from my farm to you. What you are getting upset at is that it is not "convenient for you" because it might not be in convenient packages and individual cuts. If I do go through the trouble of having a on-farm slaughterhouse, you will have to pay for that aspect of the farm.
For me it is just not worth it...First off, would you really want a non-butcher cutting individual cuts for you? Considering that cutting meat here versus there can totally change the texture and palatability of the meat, I don't think you really want some farmer doing that for you. Instead let the farmer do what he does best...raise livestock as efficiently as he can.
If you really want to buy local meat, go down to your local custom slaughterhouse and buy meat. It goes from farmer, to slaughterhouse to you in a very short and direct chain. There are all kinds of ways to buy meat besides the grocery store, its just that no one explores these options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons
I do agree that people need to be more involved in where their food comes from and how it gets to their table... to include the slaughter of that cute little animal. But sometimes it's just a matter of convenience... say, if the farmer has sold the meat of one animal equally to four customers, it's must easier for everyone involved to let the farmer slaughter, butcher and deliver it (or for them to come pick it up) rather than dealing with all the extra steps.
Exactly, and as American's we have to accept that we have to pay extra for those conveniences, whether from cash or through regulation to ensure a safe food supply. The farmer can, and has always been allowed to do those things as long as they are willing to have a facility that meats certain health standards. What becomes convenient for you, now becomes a hassle for me (the farmer). No thanks...I am a farmer, not a butcher.
Unfortunately the American Public is pretty fickle too. Everyone would love to have the convenience of buying cuts from their neighbor, until their daughter gets sick and spends 3 days in the hospital and they blame it on the lamb they just ate. It may not have even come from that lamb, but when your little one is sick and the hospital bills pile up, that is when the lawyers get involved.
What you propose is based on the honor system, and that is no longer a part of modern farming. We have people ask for raw milk all the time from the farm. Its just too risky. They can buy our milk at the store without being in the way as I come around the corner with a bale of hay on my tractor. It sounds cold and un-neighborly but I'm not betting the farm so someone can get cheap milk.
OK, I think I understand the conflict of opinion here... in the state where I will be attempting to farm the farmer cannot kill (other than chickens) any livestock he raises and then sell it, butchered or otherwise. All animal sales must be on the hoof. It is not simply a matter of going to your handly local custom slaughterhouse, because the nearest licensed slaughterhouse is 12 hours away. It's not as simple as paying your business fee, building an "approved" facility, having that inspected, and having the meat inspector come and do his thing... because there is only one meat inspector in the whole state and a small-scale facility is not important enough to warrant his attention, therefore even if you had the thousands of dollars necessary to meet all the fees and requirements, you still wouldn't get a permit because he's not going to travel 18 hours (or 4 by air) to come inspect your meat.
If the system was all nice and easy, with a slaughterhouse nearby and plenty of available inspectors, my objections wouldn't be as severe. If there were any larger, or heck even the same sized farms, in the area that could be taking substantial and unfair business from it would be a different story. But all I'm trying to do is make it so the 70 people that live within 30 miles of my farm don't have to drive 4+ hours one way everytime they want to buy some food.
OK, I think I understand the conflict of opinion here... in the state where I will be attempting to farm the farmer cannot kill (other than chickens) any livestock he raises and then sell it, butchered or otherwise. All animal sales must be on the hoof. It is not simply a matter of going to your handly local custom slaughterhouse, because the nearest licensed slaughterhouse is 12 hours away. It's not as simple as paying your business fee, building an "approved" facility, having that inspected, and having the meat inspector come and do his thing... because there is only one meat inspector in the whole state and a small-scale facility is not important enough to warrant his attention, therefore even if you had the thousands of dollars necessary to meet all the fees and requirements, you still wouldn't get a permit because he's not going to travel 18 hours (or 4 by air) to come inspect your meat.
If the system was all nice and easy, with a slaughterhouse nearby and plenty of available inspectors, my objections wouldn't be as severe. If there were any larger, or heck even the same sized farms, in the area that could be taking substantial and unfair business from it would be a different story. But all I'm trying to do is make it so the 70 people that live within 30 miles of my farm don't have to drive 4+ hours one way every time they want to buy some food.
I agree. My sister lives in Portage AK and we have talked at length about farming. I know she is closer to civilization then you, but I know the costs of food are extremely high up there. My heart goes out to you, and I wish you the best of luck in your farming adventure. In fact if I can help you out with some advice, I will. I am a big proponent of planning. I'd recommend sheep, but I am afraid with the predators you have up there, they would enjoy Sunday Lamb every Sunday! Just remember...what makes your farm so hard to farm, is also what gives it its unfair advantage.
Where I live, we got 5-6 USDA slaughterhouses, probably 8 or so Maine Certified Slaughterhouses and even many more custom slaughterhouses. I got two of the latter within 15 minutes of me, so obviously you are right. BIG difference.
(PS: My posts can get snappy because sometimes I am really tired when I get on the computer. If they seem edgy, it's probably just fatigue. Between snowmobiling, farming and life...I cram 25 hours into a 24 hour day. I figure I'll rest up when I am dead )
No worries BrokenTap, my posts can get snippy sometimes because it seems that everything I want to do is illegal or against the established grain
We've been thinking goats, at least at first, since they tend to do better with brush which we have aplenty and are a little more predator-proof if your don't debud them. Once we're more established, sheep are in the plans. Maybe a few cows once we're sure we can grow enough winter feed for them. After two weeks at my property, I was ready to kill someone for fresh milk and food that wasn't canned or frozen... I can only imagine what the full-time residents must go through.
No worries BrokenTap, my posts can get snippy sometimes because it seems that everything I want to do is illegal or against the established grain
You're fine, you have my respect, but it took me a bit to figure out where you were coming from.
Keep in mind I am submersed in a family that talks farming 365 days a year, which is good, but we are also conventional farmers and sometimes we don't change when we should. I try to walk the fine line between changing tactics when we should, and not getting into farming fads either. Since I am adding sheep, I now have a lot of choices to make...grain fed or grass fed being one of them.
I would think in your case, common sense and hardships would win out. I am a USDA recognized farm, and I try to do the right thing because as my Uncle says,"Right is Right, and Wrong is Wrong." It's not easy, but we now pay guys wages over-the-table, register our trucks, use on-road fuel, and abide by CNMP rules, etc which was not always the way when we farmed poor. But we do so in Maine where we can abide by the laws easy enough. In your case, it sounds more like bureaucracy than simply doing it to buck the system. There is a big difference there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons
We've been thinking goats, at least at first, since they tend to do better with brush which we have aplenty and are a little more predator-proof if your don't debud them. Once we're more established, sheep are in the plans. Maybe a few cows once we're sure we can grow enough winter feed for them. After two weeks at my property, I was ready to kill someone for fresh milk and food that wasn't canned or frozen... I can only imagine what the full-time residents must go through.
Good choice. I really need goats myself. I am trying to make some crappy woodlot I got into more productive land and want to eventually graze it. Goats are a great choice, but in Maine some over-zealous people kind of ruined it. We had some ethnic people move in, and so the Goat Farmer's thought they just won the lottery and touted up major sales from the new market. Goats swamped the market and the price tanked.
We have never had goats here, but we have always had sheep (except from 1970-2008). They did well so it was a no brainer to bring them back. So far so good I guess, but I need more sheep. I was hoping to build the flock from within, but so far my lamb crop this year has been way down.
I'd skip the plans for cows by the sounds. You tolerate goats milk better then anything else, and pound for pound you can get more meat per acre from goats and sheep, not to mention their relatively small size which makes getting seed stock there much easier. One other thing to think about is getting a vet there. You might want to research breeds very well before diving into livestock. Some are better then others at parasite resistance and disease. Don't get me wrong...I love my Holsteins but they fit this farm a whole lot better then your's by the sounds.
I understand that walking the fine line between proven conventional methods, adopting viable new techniques and avoiding farm fads must be tough. I certainly don't envy an established larger farm in that regard. When you're generating a large amount of produce, people are depending on you not to fail and you need to make sure you stay profitable, it makes it more difficult to be flexible and try new things that might fail or fizzle. No fun.
My Pop-Pop used to keep a small herd of goats (mostly wethers) just for brush control and clearing new & old fields. After the goats mowed everything down, he'd set this year's feeder hogs in to till for him. He'd cull the herd for his table, rather than profit, and he sold the surplus goat milk to other farmers and vets for bottle-feeding. That worked really well for him, and I think something similar would work pretty well for us too.
The only reason I'd really consider a few cows is to get different milks for cheeses and because I'm not sure I convince my neighbors that goat's milk is good Compared to the nasty shelf-stable milk in boxes that they're currently drinking, goats milk is way better but people seem to have something against goat milk and meat in this country. I'm sure I could sell lamb a little easier, but again, probably not the sheep's milk (even though it makes excellent cheese and butter). Of course, with all the hassle of trying to provide dairy and meat, I might not have to worry about what other people want or what cheeses to make because I can't sell them and can only enjoy them myself. Oh well, as long as I can eat, that's all that really matters and my veggie surplus will have to be my "cash crop".
I'm in contact with several farmers in the general area (Alaska distances of course) so I get more info on which livestock breeds work best up there and have a few seed stock sources with proven records. Cows definitely do better farther south (around Kenai) than up north.
In the 1970's, Hoard's Dairyman magazine ran constant articles about the dairy "boom" going on in Alaska.
It was labeled as the "new frontier" for dairy farmers to re-locate to from the 48.
I knew a guy who is a retired fieldman from our creamery who was up there at its "peak" selling and installing dairy equipment.
The "boom" was shortlived and most of those dairy farmers went broke after just a few years of dreams and hardships.
About 10 years later, there were no more articles about dairy farming in Alaska.
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Just remember...what makes your farm so hard to farm, is also what gives it its unfair advantage. 
