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missing says------some cheeses are just not the same made with pasteurized milk, it changes the texture and flavor way too much, Seems like the govt wants to protect our "food safety" even if it kills us.
---kills us--???????????
An interesting article can be found on page 204 of the latest Hoard's Dairyman magazine under the heading of--
----"PASTEURIZATION GOLD STANDARD IN DISEASE PREVENTION"----
(from the article)--"Pasteurization is still the most effective method for enhancing the microbiological safety of milk"
Yes, missing---you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my opinion.
I intend to counter opinions that I believe are falsely using fear mongering despite how many "homesteaders" and "wannabe homesteaders" disagree with me.
I am like you myself Marmac. There is a very like-minded conversation going over on the Maine Sub-Forum regarding Small Scale Farming. It is a good read and got particular feisty when tractors were brought up. It's a common mantra now to to her "If it rusts, do not buy it", but I highly disagree with that statement and made some very key points in the defense of a homestead/small farm tractor.
Instantly I was blasted, but no counter-points were ever made regarding those points. In short a person like you and me that often stand up and say "wait a minute, how do you plan to do this, that, or the other to avoid this problem" and the...
"You just don't think outside the box," statement gets tossed in your face.
The truth is, I hate to see so many homesteaders/farmers move somewhere else under some falsehoods. Its tough enough to homestead/farm without people injecting people with false hopes.
I do have respect for Nuala, SCGRanny and All4seasons because they are seeing some of what I say as insightful. They just might make it because they see reality and difficulties ahead and want to learn and plan now. I deeply, deeply respect that. As for the others, they stopped posting a long time ago because reality killed their dream. Well it takes more then a dream to farm/homestead I am afraid.
Here is that Maine Link in case anyone is interested...
Instead of "homesteaders" and "wannabe homesteaders" crying about the non availability of raw milk to consumers, why don't you just go out and buy a cow. Problem solved !
Yappeeee!! Marmac gave me the green light to buy a cow!!
BT - I think people should dream, and attempt to bring their dreams to life, and fail, and learn from mistakes, and maybe not fail. Wasn't it the whole point of evolution.
"When people keep telling you that you can't do a thing, you kind of like to try it."
- Margaret Chase Smith
There are some things clearly wrong with modern farming, and we need to do something about it. If homesteading and living like Amish is over-correcting, then some medium ground should be born through this toiling. So far, I see people who are just plain tired with the way things are (the food that finally reaches them is un-healthy, the rules for farmers are ridiculous) - so they see the only way to get healthy is to grow and raise themselves, - since there is no really a framework for micro-farms. The absurdity is that the micro-farms can't exist and prosper under current rules, (the way French cheese-milk-meat artisans prosper), since any chicken I'd want to sell or any jar of fresh milk that the neighbour's family would be interested in, will be fought and declared criminal activity.
At least some people, like Missing said, are signing petitions, developing some lobbying muscle.
PS: looked at the Maine thread, like the CSA idea. Healthier for city/town folks who don't have time to grow. Better for me with my tiny harvest to sell that any large store won't accept, and of course all middlemen folks are eliminated.
Pastuerization of drinking milk, or milk that is transported/distributed is a good idea and does help reduce the spread of dairy-bourne illness. I just mentioned that some cheeses don't culture correctly in pasteurized milk and the resulting cheese has a different flavor and texture because it alters the bio-chemical reaction.
I agree that MEN can get pretty far left sometimes, but the studies cited can be read and interpreted by anyone who cares to. It's just one of many similar articles about inappropriate use of antibiotics (and not just in the ag sector either).
"Certified Organic" is another good idea gone bad... the government needs to stay out of it; but they haven't, so it's been perveted with inappropriate rules and caveats as well. This is evident since "Naturally Grown" is now being used instead or in conjunction with "Organic"... people are trying to express that their product is "pure" (whatever their definition of "pure" is) but the words they can use are legally restricted by regulations and certifications that allow "less than pure" to use those words in their descriptions. Yes, some of those safeguards were intially put in place with the intention of ensuring public health, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions... the system is just plain broken.
And the problem with Certified Organic is that it varies from State to State. When I was planning to move to ID, I researched their requirements. They have inspectors come out every six months, and have a six-page checklist (in 6-pt font!!) to determine not only if you are growing organically, but to what degree. When I lived in SC and asked about the same requirements, the agent just looked at me and smiled indulgently. "Just grow it however you want and if it is organic, call it that". They have no inspectors, no verification, no guidelines - heck, they couldn't even discuss the different aspects of organic farming; didn't know what BhT or insecticidal soap WAS, much less anything else. The agent thought that the common bags of 10-10-10 was organic fertilizer... "See, it SAYS organo-phosphate right on the bag!"
I think that the reason government got involved was that so many people initially were saying that they were growing 'organically' and they were not, and someone decided that standards needed to be set. After all, if you double the price and CALL it organic, consumers must be protected, right?
Oddly, we pasteurized the goats' milk because the owner of the farm had been told that, if she did not, that particular breed of goats passed a bacterial infection on to their offspring that would cause their knee joints to deteriorate. If you think THAT wasn't fun - delivering the goats, then keeping them separate from the mothers, then milking the angry mother goats, then pasteurizing the milk, then feeding it BACK in bottles to a herd of baby goats with sharp hooves and an appetite... joy. She also sold the milk to folks who couldn't tolerate cows' milk.
And the problem with Certified Organic is that it varies from State to State. When I was planning to move to ID, I researched their requirements. They have inspectors come out every six months, and have a six-page checklist (in 6-pt font!!) to determine not only if you are growing organically, but to what degree. When I lived in SC and asked about the same requirements, the agent just looked at me and smiled indulgently. "Just grow it however you want and if it is organic, call it that". They have no inspectors, no verification, no guidelines - heck, they couldn't even discuss the different aspects of organic farming; didn't know what BhT or insecticidal soap WAS, much less anything else. The agent thought that the common bags of 10-10-10 was organic fertilizer... "See, it SAYS organo-phosphate right on the bag!"
I think that the reason government got involved was that so many people initially were saying that they were growing 'organically' and they were not, and someone decided that standards needed to be set. After all, if you double the price and CALL it organic, consumers must be protected, right?
Oddly, we pasteurized the goats' milk because the owner of the farm had been told that, if she did not, that particular breed of goats passed a bacterial infection on to their offspring that would cause their knee joints to deteriorate. If you think THAT wasn't fun - delivering the goats, then keeping them separate from the mothers, then milking the angry mother goats, then pasteurizing the milk, then feeding it BACK in bottles to a herd of baby goats with sharp hooves and an appetite... joy. She also sold the milk to folks who couldn't tolerate cows' milk.
You're absolutely right.
And this is why a little sticker that says "ORGANIC" on something at the grocery store means very little. Well, I guess that's not entirely true. What it does mean is that naive people will be willing to pay more than double for whatever has that sticker on it.
I don't much care what labels are used... I still check out the practices used on the farm before I buy and eat anything. Yes, it's time-consuming, but it helps when the farm is local because you can visit it personally. Contrary to what seems to happen at most "organic" foods at grocery stores, I found buying direct from the farmer (on farm, through CSA, or at farmers market) is pretty price-comparable... maybe a few cents more here, a few cents less there. There are only a couple of things that really do cost more (like milk), but I think it's worth it because the product is much fresher and healthier.
Speaking of milk, my son intends to buy my small dairy farm. ( He was an organic dairy farmer renting an organic farm)
I went through all the "hoops" of getting my farm cerified organic. He moved his cows here in Sept of 07 and I am renting it to him.
After being here about 2 months, he showed me his cash flow projections and I told him he would be broke before spring of 08 if he stayed organic.
He started shipping his milk conventionally, I started spraying the few thistles and dropped the Organic certification.
Yes, he is struggling now with low milk prices, but he is still here in spring of 09.
If he had stayed organic, he would have been broke a year ago.
I don't have a problem with organic milk being priced higher in the stores. The organic farmers should be recieving double the price they do for all the "hoops" they got to jump through and all the regulations they must follow.
I'm more than willing to pay extra for better quality food, especially since I know all the administrative costs involved with the bureaucratic BS and that it can be more time-consuming to grow without chemicals & synthetics. I'd rather pay the farmer for his trouble and hard work then pay all the middle-men while farmer is still struggling.
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"See, it SAYS organo-phosphate right on the bag!"
She also sold the milk to folks who couldn't tolerate cows' milk.
